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0.4 billion post-colonial Indian Holocaust - due to inherited disregard, spin & rich elites

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Third World civilian mass mortality has been caused by foreign invasion, foreign occupation and post-colonial rule by corrupt indigenous elites - the commonality, low "practical regard" by rulers for their subjects.

We all are aware of the levels of our "practical regard" for others - this is extremely high in relation to our children and immediate family but diminishes steadily as we progress to neighbours, town, state and country and thence to totally different people on the other side of the planet.

Not allowing a person of different race to enter a restaurant is clearly "racism" and is a reflection of low "practical regard" (low PR) - but so is travelling to the other side of the world and invading, killing, conquering, enslaving and robbing the racially different inhabitants.

Unfortunately, after 5 centuries of violent and genocidal racism , the globally-dominant Anglo-Celtic culture is still doing it in Occupied Iraq and Afghanistan. The human cost is best measured by "avoidable mortality" (technically, excess mortality) which is the difference between the actual deaths in a country and the deaths expected in a peaceful, decently-run coiuntry with e same demographics. The post-invasion avoidable mortality in Occupied Iraq and Afghanistan (combined population 53 million) now totals 2.3 million.

However, just as the past and present human cost of Anglo-Celtic imperialism is religiously non-reported by Anglo-American academics, politicians and media, so is the human cost of the post-occupation rule of victim countries by indigenous elites with insufficient "practical regard" for their subjects .This is powerfully illustrated by post-colonial Africa and South Asia.

The British East India Company was approved by Queen Elizabeth I in 1600 and promptly set sail for the East. In 1757 the British conquered immensely prosperous Bengal and commenced genocidal taxation of the inhabitants. Thus began a 2 century nightmare of rapacious taxation and recurrent famines that killed scores of millions. The British deliberately kept their Indian subjects living "on the edge" in order to maintain control and this is reflected in horrendous avoidable mortality.

The avoidable mortality in British-ruled India can be roughly estimated to have been about 0.6 billion (1757-1837), 0.5 billion (1837-1901, under the the rule of Queen Victoria) and 0.4 billion (1901-1947 i.e. the 20th century up to Independence). Thus the total avoidable mortality in "British India" amounted to 1.5 billion, easily the most appalling crime in all of human history - and a crime that has been largely deleted from history books in the English-speaking world.

Some of the major specific atrocities are simply not known to most people. Thus the 1769/1770 Great Bengal Famine - only a dozen years after the British conquest of Bengal - killed 10 million people in over-taxed Bengal (one third of the population) - if people did not have the money to buy food they starved. This set a pattern to be repeated over 2 centuries in British-ruled India.

Two centuries later, the World War 2 Bengal Famine killed 4 million (5 million according to Satyajit Ray in his moving film "Distant Thunder") and contributed to a 1941-1951 demographic deficit of over 10 million. The WW2 Bengal Famine happened because (for a variety of "market forces" reasons) the price of rice rose 4-fold - and, again, those who did not have money to buy food simply starved to death. Critically, Calcutta was experiencing a war-time boom and effectively sucked food out of a starving, rice-producing countryside.

The Bengal Famine was asociated with gross civilian and British Military sexual abuse of starving women and girls (30,000 such victims in Calcutta alone and possibly hundreds of thousands throughout this populous province - a crime commensurate with the notorious "comfort women" abuses of the Japanese Imperial Army in WW2). Colin Mason in "A Short History of Asia" (Macmillan, London, 2000) condemns the ugly reality that the WW2 Bengal Famine has been largely written out of history and advances a good reason for this, namely that the famine may have been due to a deliberate British "scorched earth policy" to prevent a Japanese invasion from Burma.

Indian Independence in 1947 certainly DID improve things - indigenous rulers have a greater "practical regard" (PR) for their own kind than do foreigners. Thus the "annual death rate" in 'peaceful" British India in 1947 was a genocidal 3.5% (it was 4.8% thirty years earlier) but it fell steadily under indigenous rule to about 0.9% today (a figure that is still twice what it should be). Further, the catastrophic famines that were a sustained feature of racist British rule were effectively things of the past post-Independence.

However, while indigenous rule essentially abolished famine in India , the ruling elite was unable or unwilling to abolish endemic poverty. Again, "avoidable mortality" is a powerful measure of the success or otherwise of social policies and can be examined in this context too. The post-1950 avoidable mortality in "democratic" India (current population 1,097 million) has totalled 352 million whereas that in "authoritarian" China (current population 1,322 million) has totalled 157 million - a vastly better performance; the figure for South Asia (current population 1,459 million) has been 465 million.

Current figures for the "annual avoidable mortality" (2003) are even more devastating: 0 (zero) in China (and indeed in all East Asia countries except for North Korea and Mongolia) but 0.6 million (Bangladesh, pop. 145 million), 3.7 million (India, pop. 1,057 million), 0.9 million (Pakistan, pop. 152 million) and 0 (zero) for Sri Lanka (population 19 million).

Something is awfully wrong in India - as perceived by many Indian writers and commentators, and mostly famously by the great writer and humanitarian Arundhati Roy. The example of Sri Lanka shows that (even with a civil war), high adult literacy (especially high female literacy), an annual per capita income of merely about US$1,000 and sensible governance can essentially eliminate "avoidable mortality".

What went so awfully wrong in South Asia but so right in China? The crucial difference lies in their experience of foreign invasion and occupation. South Asia suffered 2 centuries of violent, racist British rule in which it was "normal" for ordinary Indians - but not their colonial masters or indigenous elites - to live "on the edge". The indigenous elites evidently carried this British mindset of diminished "practical regard" for ordinary Indians into the post-colonial era (together with a general Anglophilia as most publicy revealed in the Indian obsession with cricket).

In contrast, China suffered horrendously in the 19th century from European violence and its consequences (notably the Opium Wars, the Tai Ping rebellion and the Boxer Rebellion) and from Japanese miltarism in the 20th century (partial occupation in 1937-1945 with 35 million Chinese war dead). Only tiny parts of China (Hong Kong, Macau, and Shanghai) were actually physically occupied by the Europeans and Japanese occupation, while bloody and extensive, was limited in area and duration. The Communist rulers of China (whatever their authoritarian shortcomings) at least had a philosophical commitment to abolishing endemic poverty - and the Chinese certainly did not suffer from the kind of "Stockholm Syndrome" afflicting the Indian elites (i.e. a paradoxical love for their captor).

Ultimately, what has caused the 0.4 billion post-colonial Indian Holocaust has been the "inheritance" by the indigenous elites from their British masters of (1) a diminished "practical regard" for ordinary Indians (this being akin to racism); (2) the abuse of democratic freedom through political and media "spin" (i.e. non-reportage of the extent of the catastrophe); and (3) a kind of "politically correct racism" (PC racism) through which "freedom", "equality", "democracy", "non-racism" and "political correctness" are bandied about but horrendous things are done to "others" and these crimes are ignored.

The Indian Holocaust, the South Asian Holocaust and the sub-Saharan African Holocaust are continuing (post-1950 avoidable mortality 0.4 billion, 0.5 billion and 0.3 billion, respectively; avoidable mortality in 2003 alone 3.7 million, 5.3 million and 6.4 million, respectively). The first step to halting this carnage is for decent people to INFORM OTHERS.

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{"commentId":85039,"authorDomain":"danish"}

Just as I expected from you, a brilliant exposition. I wanted to ask you how you derive the figures of "the deaths expected in a peaceful, decently-run country with the same demographics" (a polite note on some typos in this particular sentence, too). Is it simply by comparison to pre-colonialization/imperialism figures, then extrapolate for natural development over a period and possible unrelated factors?

Usually some historians are eager to argue the validity and of death tolls related to starvation, epidemics, displacement and social disruption. How do you determine exactly what is natural death, and what is excessive, in extraordinary situations?

I found a source that ascribes some effects of the WWII Bengal Famine to governmental misconduct:

"Paul Greenough has ascribed this rapid rise in prices to increased demand for Bengal rice from other rice
consuming provinces, speculation and hoarding motivation and above all, the unexpected cessation of imports from Burma.

Further, the rice marketing system in Bengal remained both unorganised and unchecked leading to unpredictable price escalation, Worse still, the government gave priority to Calcutta, the second city of the empire. They desperately wanted to defend this imperial bastion and resolved to feed Calcutta to
insulate the workers from the war-time inflationary impact, and needs of the districts were sacrificed".

I am, as you know engaged in what may be called "comparative history" or "speculative history" myself, and I often make use of "quantitative humanism", trying to use hard facts to determine the least costly path of action. I am asking out of interest, rather than to second guess you. In general, I think you make a good case for the concept of "low practical regard" and the long term consequences of colonialism, imperialism and foreign occupation.

I think it is also worth making a note that PTSD is now a syndrome that can be detected by brain scanning, and current research indicates that it is socially inherited for at least three generations, which may or may not be a significant factor in what you may call "mimetic racism", i.e. the low practical regard carried out by the elite towards members of their own ethnic/cultural community.

{"commentId":85039,"threadId":"6759","contentId":"156586","authorDomain":"danish"}
  • 2 votes
Reply#1 - Wed Apr 5, 2006 2:11 AM EDT
{"commentId":85147,"authorDomain":"gpolya"}

Claus: I greatly appreciate your comments.

1. Estimating avoidable mortality.

(a) THE HARD WAY: the UN Population Division provides all kinds of demographic statistics for essentially every country in the world from 1950 onwards. Simply put, one has to determine "baseline" values which are the best "mortality rate" outcomes for countries with the same birth rate profile. "good countries" (typically but not exclusively European countries) if you plot "mortality rate" against time from 1950 onwards you can graphically estimate the minimum value reached (i.e. the best outcome) after which mortality rate increases (as the aged proportion of the population increases - we all have to die some time). For "bad countries" one has to make comparisons with "mortality rate" outcomes in "good countries" with similar demographics (i.e. similar birth rates and demographic distributions).

Thus in assessing a "baseline" for Iraq the value used is actually very similar to the present mortality rate in Jordan and Syria (neighbouring Arab countries with similar demographics but which have peace and reasonable governance despite being resource poor and impoverished). Having determined the "baseline value" (the expected mortality rate for a decently-run country with the same demographics) you can determine (year by year) the "avoidable mortality rate" in units of deaths/1000 of population - and knowing the population you can calculate the "avoidable deaths" (see: (see: http://globalavoidablemortality.blogspot.com/).

(b) THE EASY WAY: It turns out that - after spending in huge amount of time carefully calculating the "post-1950 avoidable mortality" and "post-1950 under-5 infant mortality" for every country in the world - for the non-European world the "total post-1950 under-5 infant mortality" (853 million) is about 0.68 of the "total post-1950 avoidable mortality" (1,248 million). Similarly, in 2003 the "under-5 infant mortality" was about 0.7 of the "avoidable mortality" (10.4 million and 14.8 million, respectively) for the non-European world. Accordingly, if you know the "under-5 infant mortality" for a "bad outcome" non-European country in a given period - easily obtained by simple arithmetic from UN Population Division data or simpler still, provided by annual UNICEF reports (see: http://www.unicef.org/infobycountry/index.html) - you can simply divide this by 0.7 to get a quick, rough estimate of the "avoidable mortality" .

HOWEVER this rough method does NOT work for "good outcome" countries: thus for Hungary in 2003, the "avoidable mortality" was about 40 times greater than the "under-5 infant mortality" (something is wrong for adults in major parts of Eastern Europe); further, in many "really good" European countries (according to my methodology), the infant mortality is (as in Hungary) very low but the "avoidable mortality" is zero.

2. Bengal Famine.

Amartya Sen (1998 Economics Nobel Laureate) described this and other famines as due to lack of "entitlement" rather than lack of food - those who could not pay simply starved under a remorseless colonial administration. A number of reasons for the increase in the price of rice have been advanced e.g. loss of imports from Burma; decrease in grain imports to India during WW2; local fungal, storm, hoarding or compulsory acquisition effects on rice availability; Churchill's slashing of Indian Ocean shipping because of huge Atlantic losses; the divide-and-rule policy of giving Indian provinces autonomy over their food stocks; and a combination of these factors affecting market perceptions. In the last analysis, Calcutta, undergoing a war-time boom, had the money and the strategic backing of the British authorities, and could buy rice - the rural poor starved.

3. Low practical regard.

At least mortality actually went DOWN in post-colonial India (although they could have done much better as the example of China shows). However in post-colonial and post-Apartheid Southern Africa the mortality has gone UP. It is not good enough for people to simply say that that is because of HIV/AIDS - the AIDS catastrophe in the former British colonies of Southern and Eastern Africa was an AVOIDABLE catastrophe that occurred because of utterly incompetent indigenous governance. For all the "freedom" rhetoric, the ruling indigenous elites showed sustained scant "practical regard" for their fellow Africans. I'll have to attempt an analysis in a further article.

{"commentId":85147,"threadId":"6759","contentId":"156586","authorDomain":"gpolya"}
  • 2 votes
Reply#2 - Wed Apr 5, 2006 6:35 AM EDT
{"commentId":85163,"authorDomain":"danish"}

Hmmm... I think you beat me by miles, when it comes to math. I will have to chew on those methods, if I am going to make any good use of them. But I do see that there is a consistent method that applies some level of objectivity to estimates, but it is also complex (and complexity is reverse proportional to popular dissemination when comes to ideas), and it is probably also controversial. If you take method a), as I see it, you would in order to gain full credibility have to account for the Saddam Hussein factor first, then extrapolate for the invasion. Good country (median) compared to bad country, the difference minus extrapolations for natural variations equal to the bad governance (i.e. Saddam Hussein), then subtracting this amount from the bad country during the occupational force.

About the India-China comparison, I was once lectured about a four step model of modernization, in which despotism, human rights, democracy and free market made out four fields in a square diagram. Each field led to each of the others, but there were differences in the cost and benefits of each movement. This lecturer, a political scientist working in the Foreign Ministry, described various theories. According to one theory emphasizing economic growth as the key factor China has a better position than India or Russia, because it maintained "despotism" (or authoritarian rule) while implementing free market economics, thus maintaining full control over the population (working core) and production systems, while India had a certain level of free market before gaining independence as a democracy, and Russia implemented both simultaneously, apparently the worst solution.

I argued in favor of this theory, but the lecturer was reluctant to take sides and mumbled something about "equal importance" and "pushing for democracy as well as human rights as well as free market". As I think about the diagram, it doesn't make much sense to me, and I am afraid I don't recall the structure or at least the principle right. But it did enlighten me on the intertwined nature of politics and national economics, and the complex causalities in relation to development. If you pull one switch up, another goes down. It's like messing with a mixing pult, where any movement will automatically alter the settings of other parameters. I still go for the Chinese model, actually, even in relation to the Middle East.

The two fundamental rules of international politics is, I was once told:

1) The world is anarchic
2) Anarchy is worse than tyranny

OK, that was my thoughts for now. I look forward to the continuation of the series on good governance versus practical disregard.

{"commentId":85163,"threadId":"6759","contentId":"156586","authorDomain":"danish"}
  • 2 votes
#2.1 - Wed Apr 5, 2006 7:13 AM EDT
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{"commentId":85734,"authorDomain":"ISPY"}

An excellent article I totally agree with the procedure. Can you calculate the death toll from Bill Clinton's missile strike on the veterinary pharmaceutical plant / chemical weapons plant in Sudan. I get an extraordinarily large number

{"commentId":85734,"threadId":"6759","contentId":"156586","authorDomain":"ISPY"}
  • 2 votes
Reply#3 - Wed Apr 5, 2006 2:30 PM EDT
{"commentId":86306,"authorDomain":"gpolya"}

Claus:

We are all agreed that decent people must attempt to find out and then inform others about man-made mass mortality. 65 years ago it was the Jewish Holocaust (the actuality of which was NOT formally acknowledged by the Allies until 30 months before the end of World War 2 in Europe) [6 million deaths] - TODAY it is post-invasion deaths in Occupied Iraq and Afghanistan [2.3 million deaths] and avoidable deaths in the First World-dominated non-European World [14.8 million deaths EACH YEAR].

1. I agree with your critique - a didactically-successful method of assessing avoidable collateral death should be (a) simple, (b) publicly accessible, and (c) non-controversial (i.e. clearly derive from an authoritative source and not involve hard-to-understand assumptions or difficult to explain mathematical operations). Mea culpa.

THE EASY WAY - the simplest, most immediately understandable, most publicly-accessible, publicly-confirmable and self-empowering way - is to be preferred and advanced in terms of getting an URGENT humanitarian message across [EVERY DAY 1,300 under-5 year old infants die in Occupied Iraq & Afghanistan , 1,200 avoidably - and 29,000 in the non-European World, 26,000 avoidably].

Under-5 infant mortality figures are presented in updated UNICEF reports for essentially every country in the world (for the latest 2006 reports see: http://www.unicef.org/infobycountry/index.html) - it is only a click away and for Iraq and Afghansitan tells us the following: in 2004 the under-5 infant mortality was 122,000 in Occupied Iraq, 359,000 in Occupied Afghanistan and 1,000 in the occupying country Australia (noting that in 2004 the populations of these countries were 28.1 million, 28.6 million and 19.9 million, respectively).

From this data, assuming that the figures have been roughly the same each year after invasion (they have actually got worse) we can readily estimate that the post-invasion under-5 infant mortality in Occupied Iraq over 3 YEARS has been 122,000 x 3 = 366,000 and that in Occupied Afghanistan over 4 YEARS has been 359,000 x 4 = 1,436,000 i.e. a total of 1, 802,000 [cf my "hard way" calculation of 1.8 million; quantitative demographic comparisons show that about 90% of this was avoidable].

Assuming for "bad outcome" Third World countries that "under-5 infant mortality" is numerically about 0.7 of the "avoidable mortality" ("excess mortality") we can estimate that the post-invasion avoidable mortality in Occupied Iraq & Afghanistan = 1,802,000/0.7 = 2,574,286 [cf my "hard way" calculation of 2.3 million].

As you can see, in this case the "easy, approximate method" yields essentially the same results for post-invasion Iraq and Afghanistan as my "careful, finecky, precise, scientist's method" based on UN Population Division data (see: http://globalavoidablemortality.blogspot.com/).

As previously indicated, this "easy" approach really only works for "bad outcome" non-European countries - but then these are the very countries we are interested in from an urgent, humanitarian perspective ("avoidable mortality" as conservatively measured by me is zero or essentially zero in other countries - even the unusually elevated "avoidable mortality" in extremely low (i.e. excellent outcome) infant mortality Hungary "only" kills 35,000 Hungarians each year).

Since you are such an excellent and humanitarian writer I would urge you to use and popularize the "easy approach" and quote the latest UNICEF figues - the annual under-5 infant mortality data from UNICEF are only a click away but are IGNORED by Mainstream Media.

2. Pre- and post-invasion comparisons are only useful up to a point - as well illustrated by Iraq. Avoidable mortality and infant mortality was horrendous under the British and their successor indigenous royalist governments - but steadily declined under successive Ba'athist dictatorships. The return of the West in 1990 doubled these parameters which have remained high ever since - a trend to better circumstances observed in all "good outcome" countries and also in resource-rich Iraq has thus been BLOCKED FOR 16 YEARS in Iraq by sustained, CRIMINAL actions of the UK, the US and their associates.

3. "System superiority" versus "humanitarian mindset" for abolishing endemic poverty

In analyzing global avoidable mortality one finds that it is not all gloom and doom. Thus a small set of relatively poor countries with annual per capita incomes of about US$1,000-2,000 have had excellent avoidable mortality and infant mortality outcomes - this set includes the Maldives, Sri Lanka, Mauritius, Cuba, Fiji and Paraguay. These countries demonstrate that for excellent outcomes what is needed is peace, high literacy (especially high female literacy), good primary health care, basic good governance - and an annual per capita income of merely about US$1,000. Yet Cuba is a Communist dictatorship whereas Fiji (with twice the annual per capita income and a poorer but nevertheless impressive performance) is a conservative, capitalist, 2-race country with a one-race, democratically elected government (after successive racially-motivated essentially "bloodless" coups) - the commonality not being the "economic system" or the "political system" but a humanitarian mindset and good governance.

ISPY:

You have chosen a powerful example.

Noam Chomsky uses this example in his book "September 11" (Allen & Unwin, Sydney, 2001; see pages 43-54 in which Chomsky adduces the Sudan raid in defending his comment that the US is a "leading terrorist state"), Chomsky analyses the consequences of the US bombing in August 1998 of the Al-Shifa plant in Khartoum, Sudan by Bill Clinton. This plant was assertedly a "terrorist factory" but in reality was the major producer of cheap life-saving anti-malarial, anti-TB and other medicines for the Sudanese people. The bombing also interrupted the peace process to end the appalling civil war. [The "avoidable mortality" and "under-5 infant mortality" in the Sudan are still extremely high - in 2003 alone: 256,000 and 102,000, respectively; post-1998 totals: 2.0 million and 0.8 million, respectively]. Clinton was clearly COMPLICIT in the avoidable deaths of an upper limit of 2 million Sudanese (a complicity much more immediate and substantial than that of Austrian Kurt Waldheim as an Axis military officer in the Jewish Holocaust).

"Avoidable mortality" and "under-5 infant mortality" are parameters FUNDAMENTAL to any sensible discussion of national or global policies - but are scrupulously IGNORED by lying, holocaust-denying Mainstream Media.

Clinton, Madeleine "it was worth it" Albright, Bush Senior, Bush Junior, Rumsfeld, Cheney, Blair, Dr Condoleezza Rice (DR DEATH) and their confreres should be in shackles before the International Criminal Court for their complicity in the deaths of millions - the lately ICC-arraigned late Slobodan Milosevic had complicity in the deaths of "only" 0.2 million in the Balkans War.

{"commentId":86306,"threadId":"6759","contentId":"156586","authorDomain":"gpolya"}
  • 2 votes
Reply#4 - Wed Apr 5, 2006 9:08 PM EDT
{"commentId":86822,"authorDomain":"ISPY"}

Thank you for replying.
I did not know that Chomsky used this as an example.
I thought my calculations were wrong but yours (minus infant mortality) are the same as mine. .'Shock&Awe"
I find direct evidence linking this missile strike to 1.25 million deaths and less reliable evidence for another 750.000.
Adding infant mortality is difficult as it can naturally be as high as 90% for boys and 20% for girls without medical intervention. I also caution you as to referring to the Jewish holocaust too often as this is a little different than most and can have the effect of muddying the waters a little. That is, there were a large number of factors to create this (to many mouths involved to keep it secret) as opposed to a clear culprit in the majority of other events.here's a link to help with some more diverse and lesser known material which i feel would be more appropriate to our cause.
We shall speak more after you see this link ;)

{"commentId":86822,"threadId":"6759","contentId":"156586","authorDomain":"ISPY"}
  • 2 votes
Reply#5 - Thu Apr 6, 2006 9:22 AM EDT
{"commentId":86851,"authorDomain":"ISPY"}
{"commentId":86851,"threadId":"6759","contentId":"156586","authorDomain":"ISPY"}
  • 2 votes
#5.1 - Thu Apr 6, 2006 9:44 AM EDT
Reply
{"commentId":87625,"authorDomain":"gpolya"}

I SPY:

Thank you for the link to European and Japanese atrocities in China - they should never ever be forgotten.

The British opium trade to China had horrendous consequences in China (notably the Opium wars and the Tai Ping rebellion period associated with an estimated 20-100 million deaths through famine and social disruption). However this trade also had horrendous consequences in the source country British India as indicated by my British India avoidable mortality statistics - the destruction of indigenous schools and colleges; destruction of indigenous textile industry; foodcrops displaced for opium and indigo production; mercantile spread of cholera from Bengal (25 million 19 th century Indian cholera deaths); mercantile spread of the plague between China and India (19th-20th centuries). The Chinese have estimated the 1937-1945 war dead at about 35 million.

Concerning reference to the Jewish Holocaust: I appreciate your cautionary note but I refer to the Jewish Holocaust with good reason in the context of man-made mass mortality. Every genocide is distinct but the Jewish Holocaust is peculiar in modern "global "culture in that there is essential UNANIMITY about its evil i.e. it is a useful reference "standard" to use in a world that resolutely IGNORES other man-made atrocities (e.g the circa 1900-1905 South West African Herero genocide [0.1 million victims but proportionally horrendous] by the Germans; the circa 1915-1918 Armenian Genocide [1.5 million victims] - it is a crime in Turkey today to assert its reality but a crime in Belgium to deny it; post-invasion avoidable mortality in Occupied Iraq & Afghanistan [SO FAR 2.3 million victims]. Even the term "holocaust" was possibly applied first to the WW2 Bengal Famine in 1944 by Indian writer N.G. Jog (N.G. Jog, Churchill 's Blind-Spot: India; New Book Company, Bombay, 1944) and this is another "forgotten holocaust".

The fundamental points are that ignoring mass mortality and gross abuse of humanity simply ensures continuance - and that history ignored yields history repeated.

{"commentId":87625,"threadId":"6759","contentId":"156586","authorDomain":"gpolya"}
  • 2 votes
Reply#6 - Thu Apr 6, 2006 5:52 PM EDT
{"commentId":88458,"authorDomain":"ISPY"}

1915-1918 Armenian Genocide [1.5 million victims] is a very important event GP remember Hitler would have watched this with great interest. No bullets or gas here they were just marched into the dessert and left to die.

{"commentId":88458,"threadId":"6759","contentId":"156586","authorDomain":"ISPY"}
  • 1 vote
#6.1 - Fri Apr 7, 2006 10:38 AM EDT
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{"commentId":89308,"authorDomain":"gpolya"}

I SPY: The Germans had already DONE this in South West Africa in the early 1900s - in 1904-1907 the indigenous Hereros and Namas - men, women and childen - were simply driven into the desert to die; those refusing to go were shot [see: Chalk, F. & Jonassohn, K. (1990), The History and Sociology of Genocide. Analyses and Case Studies (Yale University Press, New Haven) & Lindqvist, S. (1992), Exterminate All the Brutes (Granta Books, London, 2002)]

{"commentId":89308,"threadId":"6759","contentId":"156586","authorDomain":"gpolya"}
    Reply#7 - Fri Apr 7, 2006 11:37 PM EDT
    {"commentId":89517,"authorDomain":"ISPY"}

    Thanks again GP

    {"commentId":89517,"threadId":"6759","contentId":"156586","authorDomain":"ISPY"}
      #7.1 - Sat Apr 8, 2006 6:32 AM EDT
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