Visit Gideon Polya's column >>

GIDEON POLYA

Add To Watchlist
Articles Posted: 135; Links Seeded: 1099
Member Since: 2/2006Last Seen: 11/07/2009

Racist Apartheid South Africa & Israel comparisons

advertisement

Apartheid South Africa and Israel comparisons are apt as we approach the 40th anniversary of the illegal Israeli Occupation of the Occupied Palestinian Territory (OPT) – racism, violence, colonialism, Bantustans, enslavement.

Because this issue is evidently of major interest to readers of Newsvine, provided below is a detailed 20-point list of Apartheid South Africa-Apartheid Israel comparisons [ the Apartheid Israel comparisons are in square brackets] (for a detailed, documented account see MWC News: http://mwcnews.net/content/view/12954/42/ ).

1. ultimately deriving from Dutch and thence Afrikaaner colonialism (17th – 20th century) and British colonialism (after formal "acquisition" in 1814 after the Napoleonic Wars; the annexation of Natal, 1843; British importation of Indian and Chinese "5-year slavery" indentured labour, from 1860; and the Boer War 1899-1902 with British concentration camps for Afrikaaners) - [deriving from racist political Zionism in the 19th-21st centuries; massive Zionist colonialism after the 1916 Anglo-French betrayal of the Arabs, 1916 and the further British betrayal of the Arabs by the Balfour Declaration, 1917 – which nevertheless insisted on no detriment to the Indigenous Palestinian inhabitants];

2. the race-based, Whites-only ethnocracy - [ditto Israel; e.g. the offensive and racist use of the name "Israel" rather than, for example, the racially and religiously neutral "West Palestine"; the identification of the Jewish name "Israel" with a racist Apartheid Racist Zionist State is profoundly offensive to decent, non-racist Jews; not even Apartheid South Africa went so far as to use a name such as "New Europe" or "New Holland" (although the latter was applied initially to Australia before it was invaded and colonized by the racist British colonialists with attendant horrendous genocide of the indigenous Inhabitants];

3. Indigenous Africans and non-Europeans were excluded from democracy - [Jewish Israelis rule all of the Holy Land; OPT Palestinians have no say – indeed their own democratically-elected "local" government is rejected by the US, UK and Israel; Arab Israelis, perhaps 20% of the population of Israel, can vote but have virtually no participation in Government];

4. non-Europeans were forcibly expelled from their lands (subject to passive and active genocide, from dispossession and disease at the Cape in the 17th century to outright dispossession in the 19th century and Bantustan confinements in the 20th century) - [Palestinians ditto; 6 million refugees; 4 million registered with the UN; 80,000 flee each year; 85% of Christian Palestinians have been ethnically cleansed];

5. racist genocide as defined by the UN Genocide Convention (Article II sections a-d: In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such: (a) Killing members of the group; (b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group; (c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part; (d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group) - [ditto for Palestinians; ethnic cleansing variously through violence, expulsion, dispossession and appalling imposed "open concentration camp" conditions; 6 million refugees; 4 million refugees registered with the UN; 80,000 flee each year; 85% of Christian Palestinians have been ethnically cleansed];

6. non-Europeans forcibly confined to Bantustans or non-White urban areas - [Palestinians ditto];

7. non-European movement highly constrained - [ditto Israel in the OPT; race-based compulsory carriage ID as in the "pass system" of Apartheid South Africa and Nazi-occupied Europe; road blocks and road use constraints];

8. non-Europeans racially identified by ID - [compulsory ID identifying non-Jewish Palestinians; akin to Nazi insistence on racial ID of Jews etc];

9. profoundly offensive constraints on inter-marriage - [Israeli marriage to Palestinians effectively prohibited because co-habitation in Israel "proper" is prohibited] (utterly disgusting, racist laws];

10. horrendous differential deaths - [post-invasion excess deaths - avoidable deaths, deaths that did not have to happen - in the Occupied Palestinian Territory total 0.3 million – evidence of gross contravention of the Geneva Conventions that insist that Occupiers do everything in their power to preserve the lives of their conquered subjects];

11. horrendous differential infant deaths – [the post-invasion under-5 infant deaths in the OPT total 0.2 million; "annual under-5 infant death rate" 0.47% in the OPT as compared to 0.1% in Israel- evidence of gross violation of Article 38, Geneva Convention Relative to the Protection of Civilian persons in Time of War: "5. Children under fifteen years, pregnant women and mothers of children under seven years shall benefit by any preferential treatment to the same extent as the nationals of the State concerned."];

12. gross violation of the UN Charter and Geneva, Rights of the Child, Genocide and Universal Human Rights Conventions as outlined above - [ditto Apartheid Israel];

13. possession of nuclear weapons (developed with Israeli help and Anglo-American complicity to back Apartheid obscenity ; discarded after non-racist democracy attained in 1993) [ditto Israel; non-racist democracy has yet to be attained in Apartheid Israel];

14. lethal military, paramilitary police and racist settler attacks on non-European civilians - [ditto Israel, on-going in Gaza and the West Bank];

15. huge violence against neighbouring African states (horrendous loss of life associated with Apartheid South African involvements in Namibia, Angola, the Congo, Zambia, Zimbabwe and Mozambique plus armed interference in Swaziland, Botswana, Lesotho and the Comoros) - [1950-2005 excess deaths in neighbouring countries practically or completely occupied by Israel total 24 million; 1950-2005 excess deaths in countries actually militarily attacked by Israel total 43 million];

16. illegal occupation of Namibia as well as de facto impositions on Lesotho, Swaziland and Botswana - [illegal Israeli occupation of parts of Egypt, Jordan, Syria, Lebanon and the OPT; continuing illegal Israeli occupation of Syria and all of the OPT including the Old City of Jerusalem - an obscene and continuing violation of the Torah, and specifically of the Decalogue; abusive occupation of part or all of all of its neighbours over the last half century];

17. paranoid defence of violent, racist Apartheid by supposed threat from the majority Africans, Indians and part-Europeans (a threat that has not been realized after the advent of non-racist democracy; indeed the real post-1993 tragedy has been immense excess mortality due to HIV/AIDS and government incompetence) - [notwithstanding Racist Zionist (RZ) propaganda, 80% of Holy land homicides are committed by Jewish Israelis];

18. the current "annual murder rate" in South Africa is a shocking 496 per million (mostly of Africans, 10 times greater than the in the US or Israel) [the averagepost-2000 "annual homicide rate/million" for Palestinians is 261.2 (Palestinians by Israelis), 11.2 (Palestinians by Palestinians) and 272.4 (in total; as compared to 53.7 for the US and 44.8 for Israel i.e. large-scale racist killing by Israeli State Terrorism];

19. endemic racism has been addressed by education, the Truth Commission and reconciliation processes - [horrendous Israeli racism against Palestinians in word and deed whereas a remarkable 70% of Palestinians want a one-state solution for the Holy Land];

20. Apartheid South Africa eventually (under considerable international pressure) finally negotiated a non-racist peace with equity, justice and reconciliation) - [the racist Zionist (RZs) running Apartheid Israel with the full backing of racist Anglo-American US, Canadian, UK and Australian Bush-ites and US State Terrorism (USST) are committed to occupation, theft, ethnocracy, theocracy, racism and violence – and quite clearly in practice accept that a few hundred Israeli deaths each year from deliberate, Racist Zionism-provoked Palestinian violence is a price worth paying for continued illegal Occupation].

The fundamental problems in both Apartheid South Africa and Apartheid Israel were racist ideology and racist colonialism followed by racist dispossession, disempowerment, displacement, deprivation and regional ethnic cleansing of the Indigenous Inhabitants.

South Africa found a simple solution of NON-RACISM and this could also be so in the Holy Land when the Israelis (Arabs and Jews) get rid of their Racist Zionist (RZ) , Israeli State Terrorist (IST) political leadership that acutely threatens Israel and indeed threatens all Jews world-wide who are tarred with the brush of Racist Zionism (RZ) , Israeli State Terrorism (IST), US-Israeli State Terrorism (USIST) and the horrendous human rights abuses of Apartheid Israel (AI).

Indeed humane and well-intentioned people (including Jewish Israelis) have suggested eminently sensible proposals for non-racist PEACE in the Holy Land with equity, justice and reconciliation (see: http://mwcnews.net/content/view/9253/254/ , http://mwcnews.net/content/view/533/254/ and http://mwcnews.net/content/view/5175/42/ ).

  • 10 Votes
  • Enjoy this article? Help vote it up the 'Vine.

Back To Top

Published to:

What's this?
Who's leading the conversation?
This visualization below allows you to see the impact that each user has on the current conversation. The top row contains the group of users who have had the most impact, the 2nd row the group of users who have had the 2nd most impact (et cetera). Users with similar impact are grouped together, and the average score of the group is shown to the left of the group. The author of the article is also shown on the left, in their corresponding group. Each user's score is based on the number of comments the user has made plus the number of votes their comments have received. The scores are calculated relative one another, so while their absolute value is not particularly important, their relative difference does indicate a larger difference in impact on the conversation.
9.8
3.1
{"commentId":565443,"authorDomain":"dudube"}

hi
the situation between israel and the palestinians is a lot more different- i think you are right - the occupation is very bad, and israel has a lot more to do on it- mainly stopping it now!. don't forget that there is a lot of violence of both sides, and it will be a lot more difficult to end the confrontation.

you didnt mention the fact that at 1947 the UN had already offered a two states model in palestine - under UNSCOP - United Nations Special Committee of Palestine, but the Palestinian representatives didnt want two countries side by side, they wanted to have ALL of it, so they gathered all of the armies they could get - Sirya, Egypt, jordan and went to fight israel - they lost it at the end, but they are not as "cean" as you portrait them.

{"commentId":565443,"threadId":"81696","contentId":"596797","authorDomain":"dudube"}
  • 2 votes
Reply#1 - Sun Mar 4, 2007 4:03 AM EST
{"commentId":565516,"authorDomain":"gpolya"}

dudube - I totally agree with you that the occupation should stop now.

As for history, it is clear that there was Arab objection to "dispossession by land purchase" that came to a head in the 1930s (in marked contrast, Indigenous objections to such alienation in the British colony of Fiji was fullsomely responded to by the colonial ruler in the interests of the Indigenous inhabitants). An excellent Jewish source for population of the Holy Land (see: link ) quotes an 1878 Ottoman census indicating 404,000 Muslims, 44,000 Christians and 15,000 Jews (about 3%) ; by 1922 this was 752,000, 84,000 & 71,000 (11%) ,respectively; and by 1947 about 1,135,000, 154,000 & 650,000 (33%), respectively.

It is worth remembering that the British Balfour Declaration (1917) (see: link ) (a despicable, racist colonial ruler offering a subject land to non-indigenous people) nevertheless insisted on no detriment to the Indigenous inhabitants:

"His Majesty's Government view with favour the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, and will use their best endeavours to facilitate the achievement of this object, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country".

The same despicable, racist colonial ruler, Britain (that has a major historical responsibility for both the South African and Holy Land tragedies) has been violating nearby Iraq off and on since 1914 and most recently since 1990 (Iraqi excess deaths under 1990-2003 sanctions 1.7 million). This on-going Anglo-American crime against humanity (1 million post-invasion Iraqi excess deaths, 3.8 million refugees) has now reached the magnitude of the British-overseen 1845-1850 Irish Famine (An Gorta Mór or An Drochshaol; 1 million dead, 2 million refugees) (see: link ).

{"commentId":565516,"threadId":"81696","contentId":"596797","authorDomain":"gpolya"}
  • 1 vote
Reply#2 - Sun Mar 4, 2007 7:40 AM EST
{"commentId":565519,"authorDomain":"200MilesUp"}
18. the current "annual murder rate" in South Africa is a shocking 496 per million (mostly of Africans, 10 times greater than the in the US or Israel) [the averagepost-2000 "annual homicide rate/million" for Palestinians is 261.2 (Palestinians by Israelis), 11.2 (Palestinians by Palestinians) and 272.4 (in total; as compared to 53.7 for the US and 44.8 for Israel i.e. large-scale racist killing by Israeli State Terrorism];

Can yiu clarify this please? You refer to the current annual murder rate in South Africa. SA today is not an apartheid state, so why use current figures in your comparison?

Is it true that Palestinians and Israelis can not co-habit?

{"commentId":565519,"threadId":"81696","contentId":"596797","authorDomain":"200MilesUp"}
  • 2 votes
Reply#3 - Sun Mar 4, 2007 7:50 AM EST
{"commentId":566106,"authorDomain":"gpolya"}

Oluseye - The current South African "annual murder rate" of 496/million (I believe the worst in the world for a big country; carried out by ordinary citizens ina country wracked with poverty and the HIV epidemic; dealt with by ordinary policemen) is in stark contrast to an appalling aspect of the Israeli occupation of the OPT where the "annual homicide rate" is 272/million (one of the worst in the world; overwhelmingly carried out by Jewish Israeli military or paramilitary police with the sanction and support of the Apartheid Israeli state).

Israelis who have married Palestinians are forbidden by Apartheid Israeli Law (upheld by the Apartheid israeli Supreme Court) to co-habit in Israel (for a recent tragic case see: link ) - if they insisted on this fundamental human right they would be arrested, imprisoned, deported etc. .

This is an example of highly offensive Apartheid-style legislation reminiscent of Nazi era laws and of Apartheid Laws that criminalized "mixed marriages" - highly offensive to decent people everywhere (just think of Shakespeare's "Romeo and Juliet" for the literary humanitarian standard set 4 centuries ago) - it is very personally deeply offensive to me because it was not possible for me and my spouse to live in Apartheid South Africa for exactly that reason.

{"commentId":566106,"threadId":"81696","contentId":"596797","authorDomain":"gpolya"}
  • 1 vote
#3.1 - Sun Mar 4, 2007 4:23 PM EST
{"commentId":566145,"authorDomain":"200MilesUp"}

This law seems horrendously racist. What is the justification given for it?

As to using current SA crime figures, I think that does not make sense if you're comparing Apartheid SA with current Israel.

{"commentId":566145,"threadId":"81696","contentId":"596797","authorDomain":"200MilesUp"}
  • 1 vote
#3.2 - Sun Mar 4, 2007 5:03 PM EST
{"commentId":566203,"authorDomain":"gpolya"}

Oluseye - this Apartheid Israeli Law IS, as you say, "horrendously racist".

The "justification" given for it is "security" - the same "justification" as given for the post-9/11 US Patriot Laws (overturning fundamental American rights by a US Government that is clearly complicit in 9/11 - demonstrably so in the case of the demonstrated explosive demolition of WTC7 and its pre-demolition reportage as fact to the BBC and CNN) and the Bush War on Terror ( 7,000 Western civilians killed by Muslim-origin non-state terrorism over 40 years; latest top medical literature and UN assessment: 3.4 million post-invasion excess deaths in the Occupied Iraqi and Afghan Territories) (see: link and link )

However "security" while a genuine concern to Jewish Israelis (and even more so in post-Apartheid South Africa - hence my use of these appalling figures) is an even more urgent concern to Palestinians - 80% of all annual homicides in the Apartheid Israel-occupied Holy Land are BY Jewish Israelis and are mostly OF Palestinians).

{"commentId":566203,"threadId":"81696","contentId":"596797","authorDomain":"gpolya"}
    #3.3 - Sun Mar 4, 2007 5:36 PM EST
    {"commentId":566268,"authorDomain":"insert"}

    Gideon - would a more accurate description of the law be "Palestinians, regardless of marital status, are not guaranteed citizenship in Israel?"

    The couple was not forbidden from cohabiting - that was the effect of the man's lack of Israeli citizenship.

    {"commentId":566268,"threadId":"81696","contentId":"596797","authorDomain":"insert"}
    • 1 vote
    #3.4 - Sun Mar 4, 2007 6:15 PM EST
    {"commentId":566446,"authorDomain":"gpolya"}

    NO - according to the BBC (see link in #3.1) : "First they tried to live in Israel, but the Israeli authorities would not allow Osama to join his wife there."

    Forty years ago even under the notorious, racist White Australia Policy an international mixed race couple was allowed to marry and co-habit in Australia (I know this because I recently attended the 40th wedding anniversary and the white, blue-eyed husband sang the Scottish song "Ho-ro my nut-brown maiden").

    {"commentId":566446,"threadId":"81696","contentId":"596797","authorDomain":"gpolya"}
    • 1 vote
    #3.5 - Sun Mar 4, 2007 7:35 PM EST
    {"commentId":566464,"authorDomain":"insert"}

    Yes, they tried to live in Israel, but Osama was not allowed to live there because he was not a citizen, unlike Jasmine.

    Forty years ago even under the notorious, racist White Australia Policy an international mixed race couple was allowed to marry and co-habit in Australia (I know this because I recently attended the 40th wedding anniversary and the white, blue-eyed husband sang the Scottish song "Ho-ro my nut-brown maiden").

    Clearly, Australia has different citizenship policies than Israel.

    {"commentId":566464,"threadId":"81696","contentId":"596797","authorDomain":"insert"}
      #3.6 - Sun Mar 4, 2007 7:44 PM EST
      {"commentId":566576,"authorDomain":"gpolya"}

      Israel's citizenship policies are clearly (a) racist and (b) actively discriminate against Indigenous Palestinians - both in gross violation of International Conventions and International anti-racism sensibilities. It is an utter disgrace that the Israeli top legal body endorsed the validity of the Apartheid Israeli law prohibiting Israeli-Palestinian co-habitation in Israel - those "jurists" should themselves be hauled before the International Criminal Court for gross complcity in human rights violations .

      Ditto Apartheid South Africa - there would have been no trouble for me as a White Person while not actually born there actually living there but there would have been if I had cohabited with an Indigenous or non-European "non-person".

      The big message out of the WW2 Jewish Holocaust was utter detestation for racism in all its forms - it is therefore an absolute disgrace that racist Apartheid Israel that has offensively appropriated the Holocaust as its own and yet is one of the most offensively, notoriously, violently and indeed criminally racist countries on the Planet.

      {"commentId":566576,"threadId":"81696","contentId":"596797","authorDomain":"gpolya"}
      • 2 votes
      #3.7 - Sun Mar 4, 2007 8:38 PM EST
      Reply
      {"commentId":565586,"authorDomain":"reactionary"}
      reactionaryDeleted
      {"commentId":565952,"authorDomain":"insert"}
      ditto Israel; e.g. the offensive and racist use of the name "Israel" rather than, for example, the racially and religiously neutral "West Palestine"; the identification of the Jewish name "Israel" with a racist Apartheid Racist Zionist State is profoundly offensive to decent, non-racist Jews; not even Apartheid South Africa went so far as to use a name such as "New Europe" or "New Holland" (although the latter was applied initially to Australia before it was invaded and colonized by the racist British colonialists with attendant horrendous genocide of the indigenous Inhabitants

      Are you @!$%#ing kidding me?

      You purport to be educated about the history of the area - you should be well aware the name "Palestine" comes from the name "Philistia" given to the area by the Romans to embarrass and subjugate the Jews in Judea and Israel. The name "Philistine" is still an insult today, and you somehow claim that naming the area "West Palestine" will be racially and religiously neutral?

      Not to mention that the two involved parties are the Israelis and the Palestinians - naming the area after the Palestinians will certainly show an unearned and undeserved bias in their favor.

      6. non-Europeans forcibly confined to Bantustans or non-White urban areas - [Palestinians ditto];
      7. non-European movement highly constrained - [ditto Israel in the OPT; race-based compulsory carriage ID as in the "pass system" of Apartheid South Africa and Nazi-occupied Europe; road blocks and road use constraints];
      8. non-Europeans racially identified by ID - [compulsory ID identifying non-Jewish Palestinians; akin to Nazi insistence on racial ID of Jews etc];

      Need I continue to remind you of the many Arab Muslim, Druze or Christian Israeli citizens who have full rights in Israel who aren't European? What about non-European Jews, such as Sephardim, Mizrahi Jews and the Falashas (Ethiopian Jews)?

      {"commentId":565952,"threadId":"81696","contentId":"596797","authorDomain":"insert"}
      • 3 votes
      Reply#5 - Sun Mar 4, 2007 2:51 PM EST
      {"commentId":566166,"authorDomain":"gpolya"}

      Some responses corrections are needed to assertions in #5 and are best explained with reference to Apartheid South Africa (which I presume all decent folk regard as a racist abomination):

      (a) unilateral naming of most of the Holy Land as "Israel" is incorrect ("Israel" to orthoodox Jewish rabbinical scholars is the "Torah observant Jewry"; about half of Jewish Israelis are functional non-observers); it would akin to naming Apartheid South Africa, as in my example, as "New Holland", "Afrikaanerdom" or "Europia" after the colonizers - even the racist Apartheiders didn't go that far; "Palestine" (regardless of Roman intentions 2 millennia ago) is the name recognized by 6,500 million human beings, 5 million Palestinians living in the Holy Land and millions of Palestinian refugees excluded for ever from even living in Prison conditions in their Homeland by Apartheid Israel.

      It is not just a profound falsehood - in its name and flag for an intrinsically and de facto racist state, Apartheid Israel also tarnishes the reputation of all decent, non-racist Jews around the world, alive and dead.

      (b) Non-Jewish Israelis do not have full rights in Israel - they are compelled to carry race/religion-identifying ID (as in Nazi-occupied Europe and the Apartheid South africa "Pass laws")); they have almost no participation in Government (ditto Apartheid South Africa); cohabitation with a Palestinian spouse is prohibited by law (an extremely offensive racist law that cuts at the fundamentals of humanity and is reminiscent of Nazi laws and the Apartheid criminalization of inter-marriage or even inter-racial co-habitation - see #3.1 above ) ...

      {"commentId":566166,"threadId":"81696","contentId":"596797","authorDomain":"gpolya"}
        #5.1 - Sun Mar 4, 2007 5:15 PM EST
        {"commentId":566275,"authorDomain":"insert"}
        it would akin to naming Apartheid South Africa, as in my example, as "New Holland", "Afrikaanerdom" or "Europia" after the colonizers - even the racist Apartheiders didn't go that far;

        That is very inaccurate. Israel was a historical name of the area, your examples were not.

        "Palestine" (regardless of Roman intentions 2 millennia ago) is the name recognized by 6,500 million human beings, 5 million Palestinians living in the Holy Land and millions of Palestinian refugees excluded for ever from even living in Prison conditions in their Homeland by Apartheid Israel.

        Likewise, "Israel" is the name recognized by a similar number of people living in the area, as well as most others around the world - Israel is an internationally-recognized nation and has been for almost 60 years.

        {"commentId":566275,"threadId":"81696","contentId":"596797","authorDomain":"insert"}
        • 1 vote
        #5.2 - Sun Mar 4, 2007 6:19 PM EST
        {"commentId":566359,"authorDomain":"gpolya"}

        unforytunately you miss the point - "Israel" was "A" name given by a Jewish minority for part of the area several millennia ago (that narcissist reality has at least remained!) - indeed in 600 BC the Holy Land was variously encompassed by Philistia (Palestina), Phoenicia and Syria (according to Murray's Classical Atlas, a standard reference work for schools and universities from 1904 onwards); under the Roman Empire (and then subsequently) it was Syria/Palestina.

        "Palestine" or various versions of it has been the "official" Hellenic, Roman, Byzantine, Arab, Ottoman, British, World name for over 2,000 years.

        The name "Israel" was applied in 1948 without the consent, agreement or even consulting of the majority Indigenous Inhabitants and is at the core of the problem because it specifies a racial/religious/ethnocratic exclusivity offensive to 1.5 million Indigenous Israelis and to 6.5 billion other inhabitants of the Planet (it is indeed akin to the "Aryan fantasy" of the Nazis - indeed German Zionists approached the Nazis for cooperation in the early 1930s citing their common goal of removing Jews from Germany; their approach was ignored).

        Further, from an orthodox Jewish and indeed correct 2 millennium historical perspective it is a falsehood because it falsely identifies a secular, substantially agnostic State with Torah-observant Jews (the true meaning of Israel for 2 millennia). Indeed orthodox Judaism ejects the very concept as a pre-Messianic Israel as blasphemy and heresy.

        However most seriously in practice (as opposed to arcane theological discussion) for decent, non-racist Jews around the world it falsely identifies THEM with the appalling human rights abuses, racism, ethnic cleansing, dispossession, displacement, disempowerment and slow genocide practised by Apartheid Israel - hence the name of the outstanding, humanitarian, largely Jewish American organization "Not In My Name" (NIMN) (see: link) which calls itself the Chicago Chapter of Jewish Voice for Peace (JVP) an organization dedicated to seeking a just peace between Israelis and Palestinians - the immediate realization of which is surely the desire of all decent people around the world.

        {"commentId":566359,"threadId":"81696","contentId":"596797","authorDomain":"gpolya"}
          #5.3 - Sun Mar 4, 2007 7:01 PM EST
          {"commentId":566383,"authorDomain":"gpolya"}

          Further to #5.4, read the following article in the UK Guardian (see: link ): "Occupied Gaza like Apartheid South Africa, says UN report ".

          For the horrendous realities of life in the Occupied Palestinian Territory under the illegal and traumatizing 40-year Apartheid Israeli occupation see the quite horrifying 2007 UN Report: link ).

          {"commentId":566383,"threadId":"81696","contentId":"596797","authorDomain":"gpolya"}
            #5.4 - Sun Mar 4, 2007 7:13 PM EST
            {"commentId":566410,"authorDomain":"insert"}
            Further, from an orthodox Jewish and indeed correct 2 millennium historical perspective it is a falsehood because it falsely identifies a secular, substantially agnostic State with Torah-observant Jews (the true meaning of Israel for 2 millennia). Indeed orthodox Judaism ejects the very concept as a pre-Messianic Israel as blasphemy and heresy.

            No, no, no and NO!

            You find fault with the name "Israel" speaking only for a minority, but the orthodox Jews who view a pre-Messianic Israel as blasphemy and heresy is a tiny minority. I would venture to say that 95% of Orthodox Jews believe that Israel is a religiously legal state.

            Also, I would hardly call Israel "secular" - religious courts are in charge of (Jewish) weddings and follow Jewish law for these weddings and divorces.

            The name "Israel" was applied in 1948 without the consent, agreement or even consulting of the majority Indigenous Inhabitants

            I believe that Jews were in the majority of the 1948 Partition borders, to which "Israel" was originally applied. It isn't Israel's fault that her neighbors attacked and were repelled.

            Also, your argument regarding the name is absurd, when was the last time your country/state/province/county/city/town/college/whatever "consulted" with you regarding the name? Get Australia to hold a referendum regarding changing the name to an aboriginal name, and then talk to me. Otherwise, you are holding Israel to a double standard.

            One other thing, Gideon: How are Israel's actions "slow genocide" if the Palestinian population continues to grow?

            {"commentId":566410,"threadId":"81696","contentId":"596797","authorDomain":"insert"}
            • 1 vote
            #5.5 - Sun Mar 4, 2007 7:23 PM EST
            Reply
            {"commentId":566527,"authorDomain":"gpolya"}

            Responses to #5.5:

            (a) theological correctness comes from theologicans not pollsters. Read the opinions of great rabbis on the subject (to which I sensibly defer) e.g. the greatest 19th century rabbi Rabbi Rafael Hirsch (see: link):

            In a famous Talmudic passage in Tractate Ketubot, page 111, God is said to have imposed three oaths on the Jews:
            1. Jews should not rebel against other Jews
            2. as a group, they should not massively emigrate to Palestine before the coming of the Messiah
            3. Enjoins the Jews not to pray too strongly for the coming of the Messiah, so as not to bring him before his appointed time.

            As we see, the first two of these oaths clearly contradict modern Zionism. The authors cite several Rabbis who were against the Jewish emigration to Palestine. Rabbi Rafael Hirsch wrote that God has commanded Jews "never to establish a state of their own by their own efforts."

            (b) religious courts again violate international law - my Israeli connections complain bitterly about Jewish agnostic purists etc having to go to Cyprus to get married.

            (c) "Australia" (referring a to a Southern or "Austral" land) was indeed unilaterally imposed on the Indigenous People by the genocidal White Invaders (indeed the "slow" Aboriginal genocide is continuing; "annual death rate" for Indigenous Australians is 2.2% as compared to 2.5% for Australian sheep; a top professorial medical diabetologist says that they may die out at this rate by the end of the century) - nevertheless this a "geographically decriptive" imposed name (and there used to be several hundred Aboriginal languages before the Genocide) whereas "Israel" is a foreign, race/religion-specific name imposed on Indigenous people - indeed an Australian equivalent would be calling Australia "White Australia".

            (d) re Apartheid Israel Palestinian Genocide: Dr Ilan Pappe is senior lecturer in the University of Haifa Department of political Science and Chair of the Emil Touma Institute for Palestinian Studies in Haifa. His books include, among others, The Making of the Arab-Israeli Conflict (London and New York 1992), The Israel/Palestine Question (London and New York 1999), A History of Modern Palestine (Cambridge 2003), The Modern Middle East (London and New York 2005) and his latest, Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine (2006).

            Dr Ilan Pappe (an Israeli academic expert on the matter) says: "Palestine 2007: Genocide in Gaza, Ethnic Cleansing in the West Bank" (see: link) .

            Further, Article II of the UN Genocide Convention (see: link ) defines Genocide in International law thus:

            In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:

            (a) Killing members of the group; (b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group; (c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part; (d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group; (e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.

            The most cursory inspection of the horrendous statistics (see my article) reveals that Apartheid Israel is violating (a) - (d) with 80,000 Palestinians fleeing each year (and 6 million already refugees). The post-invasion excess deaths total 0.3 million (evidence of gross violation of the Geneva, Rights of the Child, Universal Human Rights and Genocide Conventions).

            A high Palestinian birth rate does not excuse Apartheid Israel of the charge of Genocide as defined by the UN (i.e. the World) and by one of its top scholars expert on the matter (Dr Ilan Pappe).

            {"commentId":566527,"threadId":"81696","contentId":"596797","authorDomain":"gpolya"}
              Reply#6 - Sun Mar 4, 2007 8:12 PM EST
              {"canLink":false,"threadId":"81696","isPrivate":false}
              Leave a Comment:
              You're in Easy Mode. If you prefer, you can use XHTML Mode instead.
              As a new user, you may notice a few temporary content restrictions. Click here for more info.
              {"threadId":"81696","contentId":"596797"}
              Start TrackingStart Tracking
              Stop TrackingStop Tracking