According to the oldest Israeli newspaper Haaretz, 205 Palestinians have been killed so far in the last 2 DAYS - as compared to 23 Israelis killed by rockets or mortars in the 7 YEARS since 2001.
Quoting data from the Israeli Ministry of Foreign Affairs, an article in Wikipedia (see "List of Qassam rocket attacks": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Qassam_rocket_attacks ) estimates that "From 2001 until May 2008, there have been over 3,050 Qassam rockets fired at Israeli targets …mainly against Sderot and the Western Negev. Fifteen Israelis have been killed and over 433 injured, along with significant property damage. Additionally, more than 2,500 mortar attacks have been launched against Israel from Gaza. This has resulted in eight (8) Israeli deaths."
Thus 23 Israelis have been killed by Occupied Palestinian rocket or mortar attacks since 2001.
According to the State of Israel's oldest daily newspaper Haaretz (see "Palestinians: At least 205 dead, over 200 hurt in IAF Gaza strikes": http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1050359.html ) : "Israel launched on Saturday morning the start of a massive offensive against Qassam rocket and mortar fire on its southern communities, targeting dozens of buildings belonging to the ruling Hamas militant group in the Gaza Strip. Palestinian medical sources said that at least 205 people had been killed in the strikes, which began with almost no warning at around 11:30 A.M. Egypt has opened its long-sealed border with Gaza to allow in the wounded for medical treatment. Hamas said that the attacks had caused widespread panic in the Strip."
Thus the death ratio of "Palestinians killed by current air strikes"/"Israelis killed from Gaza rocket attacks since 2001" = 205/23 = 8.9
However, in addition to violent deaths in the Occupied Palestinian Territories one can estimate non-violent avoidable deaths (excess deaths, deaths that did not have to happen) from deprivation and deprivation-exacerbated disease due to war criminal Occupier non- supply of life-sustaining requisites. Thus Articles 55 and 56 of the Geneva Convention Relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War (see: http://www.unhchr.ch/html/menu3/b/92.htm ) an Occupier is obliged to preserve the health and life of its conquered subjects by supply of life-preserving food and medical requisites "to the fullest extent of the means available to it".
For impoverished Third World countries the "under-5 year old infant deaths" are about 0.7 of total avoidable deaths (see "Layperson's guide to counting Iraqi deaths": http://mwcnews.net/content/view/5872/26/ ; G.M. Polya "Iraq and Afghansitan: how many dying", pp78-80 in "Hadith Ethics. From Iraq to Iran?", editor Ken Coates, Bertrand Russell Peace foundation, London, 2006; and "Body Count. Global avoidable mortality since 1950" (G.M. Polya, Melbourne, 2007: http://mwcnews.net/Gideon-Polya and http://globalbodycount.blogspot.com/ ) . UNICEF informs us that "under-5 year old infant deaths" in the Occupied Palestinian Territory total 3,000 annually (see UNICEF: http://www.unicef.org/infobycountry/oPt.html ) from which one can estimates that 3,000/0.7 = 4,286 Occupied Palestinians die avoidably every year i.e. 4,286/365 =11.7 or about 12 such non-violent avoidable Occupied Palestinian deaths every day.
Accordingly the current schedule outlined above, as of Sunday 28 December 2008, just 2 days of violent, civilian-targetting, war criminal Israeli intervention by bombing and depriving one of the most densely populated places on the Planet (about three quarters of the inhabitants are women and children) has been associated with 205 + 24 = 229 Occupied Palestinian deaths as compared to 23 Israeli deaths from rocket or mortar attacks since 2001 totalling 23 – a Them/Us reprisal "death ratio" of 10.
Of course this summation of only 2 DAYS of Israeli atrocities IGNORES the HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of Palestinians killed violently and non-violently since 1967 by the race-based State of Israel in what can only be described as a slow Palestinian Genocide: post-invasion avoidable deaths total 0.3 million; post-invasion under-5 infant deathas total 0.2 million; and refugees total 7 million (see "We Are All Palestinian. Apartheid Israel's Gaza Concentration Camp & Palestinian Genocide": http://mwcnews.net/content/view/19915/42/ )
One is reminded of the Nazi atrocity in 1944 in which Hitler ordered a Them/Us reprisal "death ratio" of 10 in response to the killing of 33 German soldiers by Italian partisans. In the subsequent mass execution Ardeatine Caves Massacre in March 1944, 335 Italians (Jews, Italian prisoners of war, partisans and other prisoners) were executed by the Occupying Nazi Germans (see "Ardeatine Massacre": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ardeatine_massacre ). Half a century later, 2 of the Nazi German participants in this appalling war crime, Priebke and Hass, were sentenced to life imprisonment in Italy, the argument that they were "just obeying orders" having failed to sway the court (for details see "Erich Priebke": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erich_Priebke ).
The Israeli air raids on the Gaza Concentration Camp represent a massive war crime through civilian-targetting in a densely populated area and denial of life-sustaining requisites to an imprisoned civilian population.
However the 205 Occupied Palestinian prisoners of the State of Israel murdered so far in the last 2 days by air attacks on the Israeli Gaza Concentration are only about 5% of the estimated 4,300 Occupied Palestinians "passively" killed each year by Apartheid Israel through deliberate, war criminal deprivation (Sanctions, Boycotts, imposed economic deprivation) .
Reproduced below are relevant Articles 55 and 56 of the Geneva Convention Relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War: http://www.unhchr.ch/html/menu3/b/92.htm ) that are grossly violated by the State of Israel (and by the US Alliance variously involving the US, UK, NATO and White Australia in the Occupied Iraqi and Afghan Territories) (see "9-11 Excuse for US Global Genocide. The real 9-11 atrocity: millions dead (9-11 million) in Bush Wars": http://mwcnews.net/content/view/25184/42/):
Article 55
To the fullest extent of the means available to it the Occupying Power has the duty of ensuring the food and medical supplies of the population; it should, in particular, bring in the necessary foodstuffs, medical stores and other articles if the resources of the occupied territory are inadequate.
The Occupying Power may not requisition foodstuffs, articles or medical supplies available in the occupied territory, except for use by the occupation forces and administration personnel, and then only if the requirements of the civilian population have been taken into account. Subject to the provisions of other international Conventions, the Occupying Power shall make arrangements to ensure that fair value is paid for any requisitioned goods.
The Protecting Power shall, at any time, be at liberty to verify the state of the food and medical supplies in occupied territories, except where temporary restrictions are made necessary by imperative military requirements.
Article 56
To the fullest extent of the means available to it, the Occupying Power has the duty of ensuring and maintaining, with the cooperation of national and local authorities, the medical and hospital establishments and services, public health and hygiene in the occupied territory, with particular reference to the adoption and application of the prophylactic and preventive measures necessary to combat the spread of contagious diseases and epidemics. Medical personnel of all categories shall be allowed to carry out their duties.
If new hospitals are set up in occupied territory and if the competent organs of the occupied State are not operating there, the occupying authorities shall, if necessary, grant them the recognition provided for in Article 18. In similar circumstances, the occupying authorities shall also grant recognition to hospital personnel and transport vehicles under the provisions of Articles 20 and 21.
In adopting measures of health and hygiene and in their implementation, the Occupying Power shall take into consideration the moral and ethical susceptibilities of the population of the occupied territory.
The invasion of another country is illegal and a war crime. The occupation of the Occupied Palestinian Territory is in defiance of International Law and the 1968 UN Security Council Resolution 252 which demands withdrawal and cessation of confiscation of Palestinian land and property, and in which, according to a review (see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Security_Council_Resolution_252 ): "the Council reaffirmed that the acquisition of territory by military conquest is inadmissible and deplored the failure of Israel to comply with the General Assembly resolutions. The Council considered all legislative and administrative measure and action which tend to change the legal status of Jerusalem are invalid and cannot change that status and urgently called upon Israel to rescind all such measures already taken and to desist forthwith from taking any further action which tends to change the status of Jerusalem."
Just as Priebke and Hass were convicted for the 1944 Hitler-ordered Nazi German Ardeatine Caves Massacre, so the Israelis responsible for the 1967 attack on the USS Liberty (34 US sailors killed, 170 wounded: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Liberty_incident ) should be tried and punished - just as those ALL those responsible for this latest Israeli atrocity should be arraigned before the International Court or, if necessary, tried in absentia.
What can decent people do in the face of continuing Israeli war crimes against about 4 million abusively imprisoned Occupied Palestinians? Peace is the only way but silence kills and silence is complicity. Decent people around the World are adopting the view that they must (a) inform others and (b) act ethically through national and international, personal and collective Sanctions and Boycotts applied to all people, corporations and countries complicit in the war crimes and gross human rights abuses of war-criminal Apartheid Israel.
Gideon:
Don't you mean "Us/Them" rather than "Them/Us"?
gideon:
Those are about the results you'd expect (or better, actually), when a group as stupid and self-destructive as Hamas decides to try the old "take a knife to a gunfight" trick.
It would be just as easy (and accurate) to say that Israel brought a gun to a knife fight.
It would be just as easy (and accurate) to say that Israel brought a gun to a knife fight.
If you had a gun, wouldn't you?
No. I don't go to knife fights.
No. I don't go to knife fights.
I do imagine they're best to avoid.
Only 10 to 1, Israel is slipping. I mean I really wish we could get wars and conflicts to adher to a 1:1 ratio so that they can be fair; you know, just like life is.
Yes, the flippant remarks, unconcern, regarding deaths, reflects also the unconcern most Americans and Zionist supporters have to the historical conflict imposed on the Palestinians. The mindless murder of civilians that you see in Gaza is no different than the mindless murder of civilians by American Empire in Iraq and Afghanistan....where women, children, civilians are murdered by air....and then to justify it call the innocent..."militants" or "terrorists" or "Al Qaida"....as both Israel and American Empire have done.
Hate to break it too you Eric, but I am not American and I will always support Zion over the sentient Machines.
Both you are Gideon are so once dimensional and predictable with your hypocritical and biased responses; that you have become the on-line equivalents of caricatures in a bad comedy.
There's no excuse for the number of civilians Israel has killed in airstrikes like this. With all their intel and the training their ground troops have, they could easily fight Hamas in much more effective ground raids with far fewer civilian casualties. While Hamas' indescriminate rocket attackes and terrorist suicide bombers are barbaric, I have trouble supporting the IDF's actions and obvious lack of concern for civilians that aren't their own. A thug in an f-16 or Cobra attack helicopter is still a thug.
There's no excuse for the number of civilians Israel has killed in airstrikes like this. With all their intel and the training their ground troops have, they could easily fight Hamas in much more effective ground raids with far fewer civilian casualties.
it should be increasingly clear that the death ratio is fully intentional on the part of israel, that they are not being sloppy in their response but rather horribly precise.
They are also horribly precise in choosing the time of the attacks after imposing strict blockade at civilians , many of wounded Palestinians could be counted as potential deaths because of the severe lack of medication and urgent surgical needs.
What's the point of a death ratio? These aren't the days where you waited for a nice spring day, beautiful field, and daintily marched your armies toward one another in what was essentially half warfare, half picnic. No, nowadays the emphasis is clearly on winning. Clearly, as it stands, Hamas cannot win an outright war with Israel - but what, Israel is supposed to respond to one errant rocket with a purposefully errant rocket of their own? What would be the point of that? If that were the case, how about neither side fire them? It'd be "proportional" as far as death-by-rockets went, at least.
I have no idea what Hamas thinks they're really doing - it's been well documented that most Palestinians are not overly religious, but rather secular, and Hamas means, well, "zeal", and I'll leave it to your imagination what other words could evolve from that. So they're shooting rockets into Israel - and why?
Well, all I can figure, seeing as how they know they're going to do limited damage, and could never win an outright war, is to provoke Israel into just such a response (guaranteed to garner worldwide admonishment, as though Israel weren't used to that already), or to provoke Israel into invading Gaza, where at least Hamas (perhaps heartened by Hezbollah's "success") can send some Israeli's back in body bags.
But to what end?
Hamas has provoked this. And if you want to say they were backed into a corner, then the blame rests equally with Egypt. I await the article condemning them.
Blame the rest of the Middle East too, while you're at it. Palestinians - also well known - are treated as political pawns on the grand scale, and as dogs on the personal scale, throughout most of the region.
Perhaps Hamas is aiming their rockets in the wrong direction.
Gideon, that's nice, but you might as well say the sky is blue, or some other mundane fact that has nothing to do with what I brought up. You didn't really answer a thing I brought up, did you. Why not? I've already established that I'm not an Israeli cheerleader; that doesn't get you a get out of jail free card, however. Since when is "proportional" a goal of warfare, and why did Hamas choose now to strike (Obama? The elections in Israel? What? And what of Egypt?)
"...Thus 23 Israelis have been killed by Occupied Palestinian rocket or mortar attacks since 2001..."
and how may Isrealis and non-Isrealies have been killed, in Israel, by Hamas, through other than missile/mortar (i.e. bus/cafe bombings, ect.) attacks? How many Fatah hve been killed by Hamas? How many 'Miscellaneous" (insinuating insignificance) have been killed by Hamas? How many Hamas have been killed by Hamas?
"Israel launched on Saturday morning the start of a massive offensive against Qassam rocket and mortar fire on its southern communities, targeting dozens of buildings belonging to the ruling Hamas militant group in the Gaza Strip. Palestinian medical sources said that at least 205 people had been killed in the strikes, which began with almost no warning..."
"...Late Saturday, thousands of Gazans received Arabic-language cell-phone messages from the Israeli military, urging them to leave homes where militants might have stashed weapons." (By IBRAHIM BARZAK and AMY TEIBEL, Associated Press Writer)
no warning??
BAGHDAD – A suicide bomber on a bicycle blew himself up Sunday amid a crowd of demonstrators in northern Iraq who were protesting Israel's airstrikes on Gaza, killing one demonstrator and wounding 16 others, Iraqi police said. The bomber rode his bicycle into the demonstration of about 1,300 people in the center of the northern city of Mosul, said a police officer who spoke on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to speak with news media. The demonstration was organized by the Sunni Iraqi Islamic Party. The party's Mosul spokesman, Yahiya Abid Mahjoub, complained that police and the Iraqi army had not taken security precautions for the demonstration. There has been no claim of responsibility for the attack, the officer said. "The ones who targeted our brothers in Gaza are the same who targeted us in Mosul today. They are agents of Israel," Mahjoub said. (By HAMID AHMED, Associated Press Writer)
BEIRUT, Lebanon – Lebanese army officers say troops have discovered seven rockets set up with timers that were on the verge of firing near the border with Israel... Two senior officers say troops are dismantling the Katyusha rockets, discovered Thursday near the border town of Naqoura. (By BASSEM MROUE, Associated Press Writer)
who is giving the Israelis the "excuse" to use force to protect their borders?
Palestinian militants have fired more than 300 rockets and mortars at Israeli targets over the past week, and 10 times that number over the past year..."
over 3000 rockets into Israel in the last year; fortunately, few were killed... why more didn't die is a different issue; but probably has little to do with morality (moral superiority?)
"...Local residents said the tanker and the warehouse contained supplies that had been smuggled in from Gaza through underground tunnels with Egypt (By IBRAHIM BARZAK and AMY TEIBEL, Associated Press Writers)
Are Israelis controlling the border between Egypt and Gaza? What are Hamas's muslim 'brothers' in Egypt doing? (...or is Egypt just another "agent of Israel")
"...war criminal Israeli intervention by bombing and depriving one of the most densely populated places on the Planet (about three quarters of the inhabitants are women and children)...'
Population: 1,500,202 (July 2008 est.)
Age structure:
0-14 years:
44.7% (male 343,988/female 325,856)
15-64 years: 52.7% (male 403,855/female 386,681)
65 years and over: 2.7% (male 16,196/female 23,626) (2008 est.)
Sex ratio:
at birth:
1.05 male(s)/female
under 15 years: 1.06 male(s)/female
15-64 years: 1.04 male(s)/female
65 years and over: 0.69 male(s)/female
total population: 1.04 male(s)/female (2008 est.)
Life expectancy at birth:
total population:
73.16 years
male: 71.6 years
female: 74.83 years (2008 est.)
CIA World Fact Book
...as for poulation density, the Palestinian territories lists 13th (4,018,332 @ 6,020 km^2 = 667/km^2);
behind:
Vatican City (6th - 821 @ .44 km^2) = 1,866/km^2),
Gibraltar (5th - 27,921 @ 6 km^2),
Singapore (4th - 4,327,000 @ 699 km^2 = 6,190/km^2),
Hong Kong (3rd - 7,040,885 @ 1,099 = 6,407/km^2),
Monaco (2nd - 32,671 @ 1.95 km^2 = 16,745/km^2),
and Macau (1st - 520,400 @ 28.6 km^2 = 18,196/km^2)
Wikipedia
"...Of course this summation of only 2 DAYS of Israeli atrocities IGNORES the HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of Palestinians killed violently and non-violently since 1967 by the race-based State of Israel in what can only be described as a slow Palestinian Genocide:..."
...and, of course, you ignore the (and I don't need to specifiy 'race-based') violence, murder, terror etc. committed in the name of Islam by radical militants (criminals?) since... I can't even remember when...
race-based State of Israel? which race? Ukranians, Poles, Germans, Italians, Persians, Africans...? persecuted and non-persecuted Jews have gathered in Israel from all over the world (including Americans)... and there are non-jews living in Israel... kind of like saying race-based America... which race? Chinese, Mexican, Puerto Rican, African, Ukranian, Scottish...? since when is Palestinian a "race"? Are Syrians, Lebanese, Jordanians, Egyptians... a differenent "race"? Lybians are more African than Arab? Morrocans are...?
Is this Israeli 'genocide' you speak of targeted against? Hamas, Fatah, Hezbollah, Palestinians, Egyptians, Lebanese, Syrians, Iranians, Iraquis, Kuwaitis, Saudis, Muslims, Arabs, Persians, Afghans, Taliban, Al Quaida, Sunnis, Shiites? (on the flip side, I do recall hearing and reading of people and national (elected?) leaders calling for the destruction/deletion/eradication/etc. of Israel... but that's "morally" ok...)
"The Israeli air raids on the Gaza Concentration Camp..."
Israeli war crimes against about 4 million abusively imprisoned Occupied Palestinians?
do you include the "genocide" committed against the "prisoners" of the West Bank in recent days/weeks/months? or the "genocide" committed against the Lebanese? (or was that just Hezbollah?) or the "genocide" committed against the Syrians? Egyptians?
of course Shiite vs. Sunni, Iraqi vs. Iranian, Sikh vs. Hindu vs. Muslim... all of that is ok... right? (or are some of them "agents of Israel"?)
It's only the Israelis that are "genocidal Nazis"...
JERUSALEM – Gaza's deeply entrenched Hamas rulers won't be easily toppled, even by Israel's unprecedented bombings Saturday that killed more than 200 people, most of them men in Hamas uniform..." ..."For now, Israel's defense minister says he's striving for a lesser, temporary objective — to deliver such a punishing blow to Hamas that the Islamic militants will halt rocket attacks on Israel. Eighteen months after seizing Gaza by force, Hamas is in firm control and commands thousands of armed men." (By KARIN LAUB, Associated Press Writer)
p.s. what is this post doing in the "Solutions" section of Newsvine?
I think the more important ratio is the number of "bullets" and the time frame. I don't think Israel is innocent in this but this attempt to compare body counts with out comparing attempts is ridiculous.
Not ridiculous , we can,t compare using the most destructive jet bombs with littering primitive missiles , though both are condemned. An example was on today,s news: bombing the house of Hamas,s Nazar Rayan resulting in massive destruction of houses in meighbourhood and killing at least 12 civilians , they didn,t clam yet the number buried beneath the rubble
Well, I don,t care if they hunted a couple of militants like in wars , but this is not a war , this is a slaughtery ..and to be fair there is another hunt I,d like t to see justice getting him , the one who gave orders of killing a one by bombing tens of lives he knew that they are living arround , to this monster they are ''just subsidery loss''
Fada:
... the one who gave orders of killing a one by bombing tens of lives he knew that they are living arround ...
The adorable Tzipi Livni is a "she" not a "he."
Rayyan's family chose to remain with him at great peril to themselves. Other accounts suggest he forced them to remain. Either way, he was responsible for those "subsidiary" deaths.
adorable?
ewww...
. Either way, he was responsible for those "subsidiary" deaths.
Jack,
The people who launched the missile are responsible for all the deaths, proximity to a person didn't cause the deaths, proximity to high explosives did. One must wonder what the excuse would have been if he had not been present, as has been the case before in these types of residential bombings.
Wheel:
Okay. Fine. Then they deserved to die by reason of their proximity to the scumbag psychopathic monster.
The excuse would be the same in either case: "This is the place of a man who trains and indoctrinates suicide bombers. He and any building he is known to be associated with is a legitimate target."
Then they deserved to die by reason of their proximity to the scumbag psychopathic monster.
Really? Proximity = guilt?
Proxiimity in Israeli military dictionary may mean: all residents in their fire range , they did it in South Lebanon and they left behind a pile of cluster bombs to finish to them the random job.
Then they deserved to die by reason of their proximity to the scumbag psychopathic monster.
Deserved to die eh? For what? Being alive?
Dennis:
Yes. Really.
Wheel:
For supporting a filthy murderous psychopath.
Personally, I'd have preferred that they not die along with their psychopathic leader, but if the choice is between killing them and allowing the psychopath to remain alive and active, I say: Kill the psychopath.
OK, just wanted to be sure you meant it before I decided whether to report it.
Hell of a concept there, Jack. Proximity = guilt.
Hey, weren't you in Boston when those four planes were hijacked in 2001?
or supporting a filthy murderous psychopath.Personally, I'd have preferred that they not die along with their psychopathic leader, but if the choice is between killing them and allowing the psychopath to remain alive and active, I say: Kill the psychopath
ahh, so they go from being innocent family members to being supporters of a filthy murderous psychopath. And he goes from being a member of their family to being their leader?! I see, makes it more palatable eh?
Dennis:
If some tank commander decides to take his children with him off to battle for "Take you child to work day," who is responsible for the child's death if the tank gets blown up?
Wheel:
ahh, so they go from being innocent family members
Nope. If they chose to stay, they were assisting the psychopath and got what they deserved. If the psychopath forced them to stay, he is responsible for their deaths.
This isn't that hard of a concept.
gideon,
I want to ask you a question, it's off topic but it's been on my mind. I was wondering if there was any way to find out the total amt of calories as food allowed into gaza divided by the pop. to get an idea of the kind of daily caloric intake, not including food brought in through tunnels. I realize it's not on topic and not your problem, it's just one of those things that popped into my head. First people are starving, then they're just hungry, then everything's fine...depending on who's doing the talking. It occurs to me that daily caloric intake per person is one of those things that could be a rough indicator of how well, or poorly, fed people really are.
hehehe Newvine get smarter here
Wheel, now that is an amazing question.
347,000 under 5 year old deaths in Afghanistan in ONE YEAR?! How is that even possible? Sorry, I know it's not on topic but how can that possibly be?!
Good post Gideon. Few people know about those crimes of US alliance in Afghanistan , the western mainstream know nothing about civilian lives under occupation. All they think is that Afghani war is a succesful anti-terror action
Here's an idea: If Palestinians don't want to be put in a war zone, stop tolerating homicidal freaks like Hamas among the civilian population. Wipe out Hamas => the rocket attacks on a sovereign state's civilian population stop => that sovereign state no longer needs to fight for the safety of its people. The Palestinians invite warfare when they let Hamas camp out among the civilian population and fire weapons at others. Idiots.
little problem with that thinking there Dave. The Israeli's are the murderous ones, the ones that are doing the most killing. Maybe you should take the time to actually read the article Dave instead of just posting some propaganda laced hate speech.
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