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10 to 1 Them/Us "death ratio" so far in Israeli Gaza reprisals

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According to the oldest Israeli newspaper Haaretz, 205 Palestinians have been killed so far in the last 2 DAYS - as compared to 23 Israelis killed by rockets or mortars in the 7 YEARS since 2001.

Quoting data from the Israeli Ministry of Foreign Affairs, an article in Wikipedia (see "List of Qassam rocket attacks": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Qassam_rocket_attacks ) estimates that "From 2001 until May 2008, there have been over 3,050 Qassam rockets fired at Israeli targets …mainly against Sderot and the Western Negev. Fifteen Israelis have been killed and over 433 injured, along with significant property damage. Additionally, more than 2,500 mortar attacks have been launched against Israel from Gaza. This has resulted in eight (8) Israeli deaths."

Thus 23 Israelis have been killed by Occupied Palestinian rocket or mortar attacks since 2001.

According to the State of Israel's oldest daily newspaper Haaretz (see "Palestinians: At least 205 dead, over 200 hurt in IAF Gaza strikes": http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1050359.html ) : "Israel launched on Saturday morning the start of a massive offensive against Qassam rocket and mortar fire on its southern communities, targeting dozens of buildings belonging to the ruling Hamas militant group in the Gaza Strip. Palestinian medical sources said that at least 205 people had been killed in the strikes, which began with almost no warning at around 11:30 A.M. Egypt has opened its long-sealed border with Gaza to allow in the wounded for medical treatment. Hamas said that the attacks had caused widespread panic in the Strip."

Thus the death ratio of "Palestinians killed by current air strikes"/"Israelis killed from Gaza rocket attacks since 2001" = 205/23 = 8.9

However, in addition to violent deaths in the Occupied Palestinian Territories one can estimate non-violent avoidable deaths (excess deaths, deaths that did not have to happen) from deprivation and deprivation-exacerbated disease due to war criminal Occupier non- supply of life-sustaining requisites. Thus Articles 55 and 56 of the Geneva Convention Relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War (see: http://www.unhchr.ch/html/menu3/b/92.htm ) an Occupier is obliged to preserve the health and life of its conquered subjects by supply of life-preserving food and medical requisites "to the fullest extent of the means available to it".

For impoverished Third World countries the "under-5 year old infant deaths" are about 0.7 of total avoidable deaths (see "Layperson's guide to counting Iraqi deaths": http://mwcnews.net/content/view/5872/26/ ; G.M. Polya "Iraq and Afghansitan: how many dying", pp78-80 in "Hadith Ethics. From Iraq to Iran?", editor Ken Coates, Bertrand Russell Peace foundation, London, 2006; and "Body Count. Global avoidable mortality since 1950" (G.M. Polya, Melbourne, 2007: http://mwcnews.net/Gideon-Polya and http://globalbodycount.blogspot.com/ ) . UNICEF informs us that "under-5 year old infant deaths" in the Occupied Palestinian Territory total 3,000 annually (see UNICEF: http://www.unicef.org/infobycountry/oPt.html ) from which one can estimates that 3,000/0.7 = 4,286 Occupied Palestinians die avoidably every year i.e. 4,286/365 =11.7 or about 12 such non-violent avoidable Occupied Palestinian deaths every day.

Accordingly the current schedule outlined above, as of Sunday 28 December 2008, just 2 days of violent, civilian-targetting, war criminal Israeli intervention by bombing and depriving one of the most densely populated places on the Planet (about three quarters of the inhabitants are women and children) has been associated with 205 + 24 = 229 Occupied Palestinian deaths as compared to 23 Israeli deaths from rocket or mortar attacks since 2001 totalling 23 – a Them/Us reprisal "death ratio" of 10.

Of course this summation of only 2 DAYS of Israeli atrocities IGNORES the HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of Palestinians killed violently and non-violently since 1967 by the race-based State of Israel in what can only be described as a slow Palestinian Genocide: post-invasion avoidable deaths total 0.3 million; post-invasion under-5 infant deathas total 0.2 million; and refugees total 7 million (see "We Are All Palestinian. Apartheid Israel's Gaza Concentration Camp & Palestinian Genocide": http://mwcnews.net/content/view/19915/42/ )

One is reminded of the Nazi atrocity in 1944 in which Hitler ordered a Them/Us reprisal "death ratio" of 10 in response to the killing of 33 German soldiers by Italian partisans. In the subsequent mass execution Ardeatine Caves Massacre in March 1944, 335 Italians (Jews, Italian prisoners of war, partisans and other prisoners) were executed by the Occupying Nazi Germans (see "Ardeatine Massacre": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ardeatine_massacre ). Half a century later, 2 of the Nazi German participants in this appalling war crime, Priebke and Hass, were sentenced to life imprisonment in Italy, the argument that they were "just obeying orders" having failed to sway the court (for details see "Erich Priebke": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erich_Priebke ).

The Israeli air raids on the Gaza Concentration Camp represent a massive war crime through civilian-targetting in a densely populated area and denial of life-sustaining requisites to an imprisoned civilian population.

However the 205 Occupied Palestinian prisoners of the State of Israel murdered so far in the last 2 days by air attacks on the Israeli Gaza Concentration are only about 5% of the estimated 4,300 Occupied Palestinians "passively" killed each year by Apartheid Israel through deliberate, war criminal deprivation (Sanctions, Boycotts, imposed economic deprivation) .

Reproduced below are relevant Articles 55 and 56 of the Geneva Convention Relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War: http://www.unhchr.ch/html/menu3/b/92.htm ) that are grossly violated by the State of Israel (and by the US Alliance variously involving the US, UK, NATO and White Australia in the Occupied Iraqi and Afghan Territories) (see "9-11 Excuse for US Global Genocide. The real 9-11 atrocity: millions dead (9-11 million) in Bush Wars": http://mwcnews.net/content/view/25184/42/):
Article 55
To the fullest extent of the means available to it the Occupying Power has the duty of ensuring the food and medical supplies of the population; it should, in particular, bring in the necessary foodstuffs, medical stores and other articles if the resources of the occupied territory are inadequate. The Occupying Power may not requisition foodstuffs, articles or medical supplies available in the occupied territory, except for use by the occupation forces and administration personnel, and then only if the requirements of the civilian population have been taken into account. Subject to the provisions of other international Conventions, the Occupying Power shall make arrangements to ensure that fair value is paid for any requisitioned goods. The Protecting Power shall, at any time, be at liberty to verify the state of the food and medical supplies in occupied territories, except where temporary restrictions are made necessary by imperative military requirements. Article 56
To the fullest extent of the means available to it, the Occupying Power has the duty of ensuring and maintaining, with the cooperation of national and local authorities, the medical and hospital establishments and services, public health and hygiene in the occupied territory, with particular reference to the adoption and application of the prophylactic and preventive measures necessary to combat the spread of contagious diseases and epidemics. Medical personnel of all categories shall be allowed to carry out their duties. If new hospitals are set up in occupied territory and if the competent organs of the occupied State are not operating there, the occupying authorities shall, if necessary, grant them the recognition provided for in Article 18. In similar circumstances, the occupying authorities shall also grant recognition to hospital personnel and transport vehicles under the provisions of Articles 20 and 21. In adopting measures of health and hygiene and in their implementation, the Occupying Power shall take into consideration the moral and ethical susceptibilities of the population of the occupied territory.

The invasion of another country is illegal and a war crime. The occupation of the Occupied Palestinian Territory is in defiance of International Law and the 1968 UN Security Council Resolution 252 which demands withdrawal and cessation of confiscation of Palestinian land and property, and in which, according to a review (see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Security_Council_Resolution_252 ): "the Council reaffirmed that the acquisition of territory by military conquest is inadmissible and deplored the failure of Israel to comply with the General Assembly resolutions. The Council considered all legislative and administrative measure and action which tend to change the legal status of Jerusalem are invalid and cannot change that status and urgently called upon Israel to rescind all such measures already taken and to desist forthwith from taking any further action which tends to change the status of Jerusalem."

Just as Priebke and Hass were convicted for the 1944 Hitler-ordered Nazi German Ardeatine Caves Massacre, so the Israelis responsible for the 1967 attack on the USS Liberty (34 US sailors killed, 170 wounded: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Liberty_incident ) should be tried and punished - just as those ALL those responsible for this latest Israeli atrocity should be arraigned before the International Court or, if necessary, tried in absentia.

What can decent people do in the face of continuing Israeli war crimes against about 4 million abusively imprisoned Occupied Palestinians? Peace is the only way but silence kills and silence is complicity. Decent people around the World are adopting the view that they must (a) inform others and (b) act ethically through national and international, personal and collective Sanctions and Boycotts applied to all people, corporations and countries complicit in the war crimes and gross human rights abuses of war-criminal Apartheid Israel.

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{"commentId":4568663,"authorDomain":"gpolya"}

In relation to the statement in the article that "Of course this summation of only 2 DAYS of Israeli atrocities IGNORES the HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of Palestinians killed violently and non-violently since 1967 by the race-based State of Israel in what can only be described as a slow Palestinian Genocide: post-invasion avoidable deaths total 0.3 million; post-invasion under-5 infant deathas total 0.2 million; and refugees total 7 million" one must refer to Article 2 of the UN Genocide Convention which is reproduced below (see: Article 2, UN Genocide Convention) .

QUOTE: "Article II. In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnic, racial or religious group, as such: a) Killing members of the group; b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group; c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part; d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group; e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group." END QUOTE.

{"commentId":4568663,"threadId":"454431","contentId":"2250805","authorDomain":"gpolya"}
  • 5 votes
Reply#1 - Sat Dec 27, 2008 5:31 PM EST
{"commentId":4573214,"authorDomain":"chasing"}

The UN is not an overarching body, and their "rules" and "laws" only have the exact effect that individual, sovereign nations, give them.  Their laws are not above the laws of any nation - but rather between them.  As such, personally I find the definition of genocide to be a bit overblown.  You disagree clearly, and that's fine.  Neither of our opinions mean much to your average Palestinian (or Israeli).

I've never been a cheerleader for Israel, but that doesn't mean I see doom in everything they do, either.  So I ask you: has Palestinian population increased, or decreased, since the founding of Israel?

This is not a trick question.  I honestly don't know.  I'm wondering, though, if you know either.

{"commentId":4573214,"threadId":"454431","contentId":"2250805","authorDomain":"chasing"}
  • 2 votes
#1.1 - Sun Dec 28, 2008 7:16 AM EST
{"commentId":4573836,"authorDomain":"Meloney"}

has Palestinian population increased, or decreased, since the founding of Israel?

Is that the same as asking "Over the last 60 years has the indigenous population increased?"

The question is trick in that it incorporates assumptions about people's identity.  Before the founding of Israel there could be no citizens of that state.  The establishment of the state has altered the legal and cultural characteristics of the people's identity. 

Maybe it would be more appropriate to ask "How has the establishment of the state changed the status of the population living within the territory under the legal auspice of the state of Israel?"  We could consider immigration and factors related to granting state privileges to individuals dwelling within the territory.

{"commentId":4573836,"threadId":"454431","contentId":"2250805","authorDomain":"Meloney"}
  • 5 votes
#1.2 - Sun Dec 28, 2008 9:28 AM EST
{"commentId":4582669,"authorDomain":"chasing"}

Is that the same as asking "Over the last 60 years has the indigenous population increased?"

No.  It's not.  What it is asking is the following:

Has Palestinian population increased, or decreased, since the founding of Israel?

Strip away your "tricks" and just answer the question as honestly as you can.  Can you?  What is it?  That's all I want to know.  I find it difficult to believe that any Arab would choose to be "Palestinian", considering the way they are treated in the Arab world, but would be happy to be corrected.  Which, you'll note, doesn't really have anything to do with my question.  The answers are thus: up/down.

Answer that and then expand upon them, if you choose, please. 

{"commentId":4582669,"threadId":"454431","contentId":"2250805","authorDomain":"chasing"}
  • 1 vote
#1.3 - Mon Dec 29, 2008 7:48 AM EST
Reply
{"commentId":4569473,"authorDomain":"jfxgillis"}

Gideon:

Don't you mean "Us/Them" rather than "Them/Us"?

{"commentId":4569473,"threadId":"454431","contentId":"2250805","authorDomain":"jfxgillis"}
  • 6 votes
Reply#2 - Sat Dec 27, 2008 7:23 PM EST
{"commentId":4570754,"authorDomain":"gpolya"}

My 10 is to 1 Them/US death ratio is specifically the ratio of "Gazans killed in the last 1-2 days" to "Israelis killed from Gaza rockets and mortars in the last 7 years".

My Them/Us was an abbreviation to fit into the headline - I am neither a Palestinian nor an Israeli but simply an anti-racist, humanitarian, agnostic scientist who adheres resolutely to the core messages from the World War 2 Holocaust (30 million Slav, Jewish and Roma dead) that wiped my family from the face of Europe - specifically, "zero tolerance for racism", "never again to anyone" and "bear witness".

I take my cue on matters such as the Palestinian Genocide (and the related Iraqi Genocide and Afghan Genocide) from the tragic history of my family under the Nazi Germans and from outstanding humanitarian scholars - rather from genocide-complicit and genocide-ignoring pro-Bush-ite or pro-Zionist mainstream media and politicians.

Thus outstanding Jewish American scholar Professor Jared Diamond in his exceptionally important book "Collapse" (Prologue, p10, Penguin 2007 edition), unequivocally refers to the "moral principle, namely that it is morally wrong for one people to dispossess, subjugate, or exterminate another people."

{"commentId":4570754,"threadId":"454431","contentId":"2250805","authorDomain":"gpolya"}
  • 6 votes
#2.1 - Sat Dec 27, 2008 10:10 PM EST
{"commentId":4570928,"authorDomain":"jfxgillis"}

gideon:

Those are about the results you'd expect (or better, actually), when a group as stupid and self-destructive as Hamas decides to try the old "take a knife to a gunfight" trick.

{"commentId":4570928,"threadId":"454431","contentId":"2250805","authorDomain":"jfxgillis"}
  • 4 votes
#2.2 - Sat Dec 27, 2008 10:35 PM EST
{"commentId":4582773,"authorDomain":"paperdragon"}

It would be just as easy (and accurate) to say that Israel brought a gun to a knife fight.

{"commentId":4582773,"threadId":"454431","contentId":"2250805","authorDomain":"paperdragon"}
  • 7 votes
#2.3 - Mon Dec 29, 2008 8:11 AM EST
{"commentId":4583159,"authorDomain":"chasing"}

It would be just as easy (and accurate) to say that Israel brought a gun to a knife fight.

If you had a gun, wouldn't you?

{"commentId":4583159,"threadId":"454431","contentId":"2250805","authorDomain":"chasing"}
  • 2 votes
#2.4 - Mon Dec 29, 2008 8:55 AM EST
{"commentId":4583235,"authorDomain":"paperdragon"}

No. I don't go to knife fights.

{"commentId":4583235,"threadId":"454431","contentId":"2250805","authorDomain":"paperdragon"}
  • 6 votes
#2.5 - Mon Dec 29, 2008 9:04 AM EST
{"commentId":4593337,"authorDomain":"chasing"}

No. I don't go to knife fights.

I do imagine they're best to avoid.

{"commentId":4593337,"threadId":"454431","contentId":"2250805","authorDomain":"chasing"}
  • 3 votes
#2.6 - Mon Dec 29, 2008 11:44 PM EST
Reply
{"commentId":4569591,"authorDomain":"roan"}

Only 10 to 1, Israel is slipping.  I mean I really wish we could get wars and conflicts to adher to a 1:1 ratio so that they can be fair; you know, just like life is.

{"commentId":4569591,"threadId":"454431","contentId":"2250805","authorDomain":"roan"}
  • 8 votes
Reply#3 - Sat Dec 27, 2008 7:41 PM EST
{"commentId":4570547,"authorDomain":"gpolya"}

Very sensible observation, Roan. Below my attempts to put NUMBERS to your point. My 10 is to 1 ratio is the ratio of "Gazans killed in the last 1-2 days" to "Israelis killed from Gaza rockets and mortars in the last 7 years".

According to the Israel Ministry of Foreign Affairs (see: Victims of Palestinian Violence and Terrorism since September 2000 ) 1,170 Israelis have been killed by Palestinians since 2000.

According to the Israel Ministry of Foreign Affairs (see: Jewish Terrorism deaths in Mandatory Palestine-Israel - 1920-1999 ), QUOTE: "From 1920 through 1999, a total of 2,500 residents of Mandatory Palestine and, since 1948, the State of Israel fell victims to hostile enemy action; in most cases, terrorist attacks".

Thus, according Israel Ministry of Foreign Affairs, the the total of Jewish victims of "hostile enemy action, in most cases , terrorist attacks" in the period 1920-2008 totalled roughly 1,170 + 2,500 = 3,670.

Turning to another Jewish Israeli organization, B'Tselem (see: B'TSELEM - The Israeli Information Center for Human Rights in the Occupied Territories ), we find that 4,897 Palestinians have been killed by Jewish Israelis (mostly bu Israeli military) in the period 29.9.2000-30.11.2008 . Taking into account the recent Israeli attacks that caused 225 deaths yesterday and about 10 more this month the Palestinian deaths since September 2000 total 4,897 + 225 + 10 = 5,132. A proportional adjustment to include all deaths in 2000 would yield 5,132 x 108/99 = 5599 or about 5,600 Palestinians killed since 2000.

The "death ratio" of "Palestinians killed by Israelis since September 2000"/"Israelis killed by Palestinians since September 2000" = 5,132/1,170 = 4.4.

However we must also consider non-violent Occupied Palestinian deaths due to deprivation and deprivation-exacerbated disease due to war criminal Occupier violation of the Geneva Convention which demands supply of life-saving food and medical requisites by the Occupier "to the fullest extent of the means available to it". As outlined in the article this can be estimated from UNICEF data to be about 4,300 annually or 4,300/year x 8.3 years = 35,690 non-violent Occupied Palestinian avoidable deaths since September 2000.

For moral justification of this assessment we can turn to Professor Sir Martin Gilbert, a leading historian of the 20th century, World War 2, the Jewish Holocaust and the effective creator of the race-based State of Israel through the 1944 UK War Cabinet Partition decision, Winston Churchill (see Media Lying over Churchill's Crimes. British-Indian Holocaust" ) who estimates that 1 in 6 of the 5-6 million Jews who died inthe Jewsih Holocaust died from deprivation (see (see: Gilbert, M. (1969) (with Banks, A., cartographer), Jewish History Atlas (Weidenfeld & Nicolson, London) and Gilbert, M. (1982), Atlas of the Holocaust (Michael Joseph, London)).

Accordingly total Occupied Palestinian violent and non-violent avoidable deaths due to Occupation violence and deprivation since September 2000 total 35,690 + 5,132 = 40,822 and for the period September 2000-2008 the Palestinian/Jewish Israel "death ratio" has been 40,822/1,170 = 34.9 i.e. roughly 35 and about 3.5 times that advocated by arch-fiend Adolph Hitler for the 1944 Ardeatine Caves reprisals massacre and indeed about 3.5 times the "enemy civilian deaths"/German military "death ratio" actually "achieved" overall by Nazi Germany in World War 2.

The 1 to 1 ratio Roan speaks of was achieved in WW1.

Thus the "death ratio" of "enemy civilian dead"/"Allied military dead" in World War 1 was 5.2 million/5.7 million = 0.91 was about the same as the ratio of "Allied civilian dead"/"Germany-allied military dead" = 3.7 million/4.0 million = 0.92. However this changed enormously with the transmission of the virulent Spanish influenza (flu) virus around the world in the period 1918-1920 (20-100 million deaths world-wide, an estimated 17 million deaths in British India alone).

In World War 2 there were total military deaths of 25.3 million versus 66.4 million civilian deaths (this figure assuming 35 million violent and non-violent war-related deaths in China and 7 million deaths associated with the Bengal Famine atrocity in British India), with an overall "death ratio" of "civilian deaths"/"military deaths" of 66.4 million/25.3 million = 2.6, about 3 times higher than for World War 1 (excluding the war's end and post-war flu epidemic) (see: Pro-Zionist Media Holocaust Ignoring. UK Guardian Censors Civilian War Dead on Remembrance Day ).

{"commentId":4570547,"threadId":"454431","contentId":"2250805","authorDomain":"gpolya"}
  • 4 votes
#3.1 - Sat Dec 27, 2008 9:42 PM EST
{"commentId":4570628,"authorDomain":"gpolya"}

Roan, I would add that even better would be NO conflict at all e.g. by immediate Israeli adherence to the 1968 UN Security Council Resolution 252 that demanded Israeli withdrawal and cessation of land and property seizure (see article for links).

{"commentId":4570628,"threadId":"454431","contentId":"2250805","authorDomain":"gpolya"}
  • 5 votes
#3.2 - Sat Dec 27, 2008 9:54 PM EST
{"commentId":4573320,"authorDomain":"eric-albert"}

Yes, the flippant remarks, unconcern, regarding deaths, reflects also the unconcern most Americans and Zionist supporters have to the historical conflict imposed on the Palestinians. The mindless murder of civilians that you see in Gaza is no different than the mindless murder of civilians by American Empire in Iraq and Afghanistan....where women, children, civilians are murdered by air....and then to justify it call the innocent..."militants" or "terrorists" or "Al Qaida"....as both Israel and American Empire have done.

{"commentId":4573320,"threadId":"454431","contentId":"2250805","authorDomain":"eric-albert"}
  • 7 votes
#3.3 - Sun Dec 28, 2008 7:50 AM EST
{"commentId":4574291,"authorDomain":"roan"}

Hate to break it too you Eric, but I am not American and I will always support Zion over the sentient Machines.

Both you are Gideon are so once dimensional and predictable with your hypocritical and biased responses; that you have become the on-line equivalents of caricatures in a bad comedy.

{"commentId":4574291,"threadId":"454431","contentId":"2250805","authorDomain":"roan"}
  • 3 votes
#3.4 - Sun Dec 28, 2008 10:29 AM EST
Reply
{"commentId":4569879,"authorDomain":"cyril1917"}

There's no excuse for the number of civilians Israel has killed in airstrikes like this.  With all their intel and the training their ground troops have, they could easily fight Hamas in much more effective ground raids with far fewer civilian casualties.  While Hamas' indescriminate rocket attackes and terrorist suicide bombers are barbaric, I have trouble supporting the IDF's actions and obvious lack of concern for civilians that aren't their own.  A thug in an f-16 or Cobra attack helicopter is still a thug.

{"commentId":4569879,"threadId":"454431","contentId":"2250805","authorDomain":"cyril1917"}
  • 8 votes
Reply#4 - Sat Dec 27, 2008 8:26 PM EST
{"commentId":4570587,"authorDomain":"gpolya"}

I fully agree, Yosho, that indiscriminate Occupied Palestinian rocket attacks and suicide bombings are barbaric and so is civilian-targetting Israeli air force rocketing and bombing of one of the most densely populated and impoverished places on the planet, the Gaza Strip, the Israeli-enforced Prison for about 1.5 million Occupied Palestinians (about 50% children and 3/4 Women and Children).
Indeed it is evident from the presented statistics that Occupied Palestinian rocket attacks end up killing vastly more Palestinians as a result of barbaric Israeli reprisals.

{"commentId":4570587,"threadId":"454431","contentId":"2250805","authorDomain":"gpolya"}
  • 5 votes
#4.1 - Sat Dec 27, 2008 9:48 PM EST
{"commentId":4571268,"authorDomain":"firsty"}

There's no excuse for the number of civilians Israel has killed in airstrikes like this.  With all their intel and the training their ground troops have, they could easily fight Hamas in much more effective ground raids with far fewer civilian casualties.

it should be increasingly clear that the death ratio is fully intentional on the part of israel, that they are not being sloppy in their response but rather horribly precise.

{"commentId":4571268,"threadId":"454431","contentId":"2250805","authorDomain":"firsty"}
  • 7 votes
#4.2 - Sat Dec 27, 2008 11:25 PM EST
{"commentId":4574649,"authorDomain":"drfade3000"}

They are also horribly precise in choosing the time of the attacks after imposing strict blockade at civilians , many of wounded Palestinians could be counted as potential deaths because of the severe lack of medication and urgent surgical needs.      

{"commentId":4574649,"threadId":"454431","contentId":"2250805","authorDomain":"drfade3000"}
  • 9 votes
#4.3 - Sun Dec 28, 2008 11:11 AM EST
Reply
{"commentId":4571541,"authorDomain":"JK-755013"}
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{"commentId":4573194,"authorDomain":"chasing"}

What's the point of a death ratio?  These aren't the days where you waited for a nice spring day, beautiful field, and daintily marched your armies toward one another in what was essentially half warfare, half picnic.  No, nowadays the emphasis is clearly on winning.  Clearly, as it stands, Hamas cannot win an outright war with Israel - but what, Israel is supposed to respond to one errant rocket with a purposefully errant rocket of their own?  What would be the point of that?  If that were the case, how about neither side fire them?  It'd be "proportional" as far as death-by-rockets went, at least.

I have no idea what Hamas thinks they're really doing - it's been well documented that most Palestinians are not overly religious, but rather secular, and Hamas means, well, "zeal", and I'll leave it to your imagination what other words could evolve from that.  So they're shooting rockets into Israel - and why?

Well, all I can figure, seeing as how they know they're going to do limited damage, and could never win an outright war, is to provoke Israel into just such a response (guaranteed to garner worldwide admonishment, as though Israel weren't used to that already), or to provoke Israel into invading Gaza, where at least Hamas (perhaps heartened by Hezbollah's "success") can send some Israeli's back in body bags.

But to what end?

Hamas has provoked this.  And if you want to say they were backed into a corner, then the blame rests equally with Egypt.  I await the article condemning them.

Blame the rest of the Middle East too, while you're at it.  Palestinians - also well known - are treated as political pawns on the grand scale, and as dogs on the personal scale, throughout most of the region.

Perhaps Hamas is aiming their rockets in the wrong direction.

{"commentId":4573194,"threadId":"454431","contentId":"2250805","authorDomain":"chasing"}
  • 3 votes
Reply#9 - Sun Dec 28, 2008 7:09 AM EST
{"commentId":4573321,"authorDomain":"gpolya"}

In countries like the UK, Australia and Israel (as opposed to the Israeli-occupied Holy Land) the homicide rate is about 15 per million per year (it is 56 per million per year in the US; see: United States Crime Rates 1960 - 2007 ).

This means (assuming this figure) that in the State of Israel (population about 7 million) about 15 x 7 = 105 people are killed each year by fellow Israelis literally going "mad" with anger, fear, greed, whatever. The perpetrators are subject to the peaceful course of law involving arraignment, trial and punishment - the israeli airforce is not despatched to bomb Israeli apartments containing alleged wife-bashers or murderers.

However, according to official Israeli statistics quoted in my article, "only" 3 Israelis have been killed on average each year from violence from a tiny minority of "mad" people out of the 4 million abusively occupied, imprisoned and dispossessed Occupied Palestinians by rockets or mortars from Gaza in acts of pointless violence (just like the 105 other murders of Israelis each year by "crazy" Israelis) .

In keeping with the implicit theoretical and de facto violence and racism of the Zionist State of Israel the Israeli response in the last 2 DAYS to 3 annual deaths from rockets/mortars has been airforce bombing of the most densely populated urban area in the world occasioning (so far) 225 deaths (and about 800 injured) - twice the number of Israeli homicides in 2 YEARS and 10 times the number of Israeli deaths from rockets/mortars over the last 8 years..

The fundamental world-wide objection to the policies of the race-based Zionist State of Israel are its violent , deadly, racist policies as exemplified by these shocking statistics.

{"commentId":4573321,"threadId":"454431","contentId":"2250805","authorDomain":"gpolya"}
  • 3 votes
#9.1 - Sun Dec 28, 2008 7:50 AM EST
{"commentId":4582701,"authorDomain":"chasing"}

Gideon, that's nice, but you might as well say the sky is blue, or some other mundane fact that has nothing to do with what I brought up.  You didn't really answer a thing I brought up, did you.  Why not?  I've already established that I'm not an Israeli cheerleader; that doesn't get you a get out of jail free card, however.  Since when is "proportional" a goal of warfare, and why did Hamas choose now to strike (Obama?  The elections in Israel?  What?  And what of Egypt?)

{"commentId":4582701,"threadId":"454431","contentId":"2250805","authorDomain":"chasing"}
  • 2 votes
#9.2 - Mon Dec 29, 2008 7:55 AM EST
Reply
{"commentId":4574184,"authorDomain":"JK-755013"}
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{"commentId":4574202,"authorDomain":"JK-755013"}
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{"commentId":4574279,"authorDomain":"celticbrooder"}

"...Thus 23 Israelis have been killed by Occupied Palestinian rocket or mortar attacks since 2001..."

and how may Isrealis and non-Isrealies have been killed, in Israel, by Hamas, through other than missile/mortar (i.e. bus/cafe bombings, ect.) attacks? How many Fatah hve been killed by Hamas? How many 'Miscellaneous" (insinuating insignificance) have been killed by Hamas? How many Hamas have been killed by Hamas?

"Israel launched on Saturday morning the start of a massive offensive against Qassam rocket and mortar fire on its southern communities, targeting dozens of buildings belonging to the ruling Hamas militant group in the Gaza Strip. Palestinian medical sources said that at least 205 people had been killed in the strikes, which began with almost no warning..."

"...Late Saturday, thousands of Gazans received Arabic-language cell-phone messages from the Israeli military, urging them to leave homes where militants might have stashed weapons." (By IBRAHIM BARZAK and AMY TEIBEL, Associated Press Writer)

no warning??

BAGHDAD – A suicide bomber on a bicycle blew himself up Sunday amid a crowd of demonstrators in northern Iraq who were protesting Israel's airstrikes on Gaza, killing one demonstrator and wounding 16 others, Iraqi police said. The bomber rode his bicycle into the demonstration of about 1,300 people in the center of the northern city of Mosul, said a police officer who spoke on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to speak with news media. The demonstration was organized by the Sunni Iraqi Islamic Party. The party's Mosul spokesman, Yahiya Abid Mahjoub, complained that police and the Iraqi army had not taken security precautions for the demonstration. There has been no claim of responsibility for the attack, the officer said. "The ones who targeted our brothers in Gaza are the same who targeted us in Mosul today. They are agents of Israel," Mahjoub said. (By HAMID AHMED, Associated Press Writer)

BEIRUT, Lebanon – Lebanese army officers say troops have discovered seven rockets set up with timers that were on the verge of firing near the border with Israel... Two senior officers say troops are dismantling the Katyusha rockets, discovered Thursday near the border town of Naqoura. (By BASSEM MROUE, Associated Press Writer)

who is giving the Israelis the "excuse" to use force to protect their borders?

Palestinian militants have fired more than 300 rockets and mortars at Israeli targets over the past week, and 10 times that number over the past year..."

over 3000 rockets into Israel in the last year; fortunately, few were killed... why more didn't die is a different issue; but probably has little to do with morality (moral superiority?)

"...Local residents said the tanker and the warehouse contained supplies that had been smuggled in from Gaza through underground tunnels with Egypt (By IBRAHIM BARZAK and AMY TEIBEL, Associated Press Writers)

Are Israelis controlling the border between Egypt and Gaza? What are Hamas's muslim 'brothers' in Egypt doing? (...or is Egypt just another "agent of Israel")

"...war criminal Israeli intervention by bombing and depriving one of the most densely populated places on the Planet (about three quarters of the inhabitants are women and children)...'

Population: 1,500,202 (July 2008 est.)

Age structure:

0-14 years:

44.7% (male 343,988/female 325,856)
15-64 years: 52.7% (male 403,855/female 386,681)
65 years and over: 2.7% (male 16,196/female 23,626) (2008 est.)

Sex ratio:

at birth:

1.05 male(s)/female
under 15 years: 1.06 male(s)/female
15-64 years: 1.04 male(s)/female
65 years and over: 0.69 male(s)/female
total population: 1.04 male(s)/female (2008 est.)

Life expectancy at birth:

total population:

73.16 years
male: 71.6 years
female: 74.83 years (2008 est.)

CIA World Fact Book

...as for poulation density, the Palestinian territories lists 13th (4,018,332 @ 6,020 km^2 = 667/km^2);

behind:

Vatican City (6th - 821 @ .44 km^2) = 1,866/km^2),

Gibraltar (5th - 27,921 @ 6 km^2),

Singapore (4th - 4,327,000 @ 699 km^2 = 6,190/km^2),

Hong Kong (3rd - 7,040,885 @ 1,099 = 6,407/km^2),

Monaco (2nd - 32,671 @ 1.95 km^2 = 16,745/km^2),

and Macau (1st - 520,400 @ 28.6 km^2 = 18,196/km^2)

Wikipedia

"...Of course this summation of only 2 DAYS of Israeli atrocities IGNORES the HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of Palestinians killed violently and non-violently since 1967 by the race-based State of Israel in what can only be described as a slow Palestinian Genocide:..."

...and, of course, you ignore the (and I don't need to specifiy 'race-based') violence, murder, terror etc. committed in the name of Islam by radical militants (criminals?) since... I can't even remember when...

race-based State of Israel? which race? Ukranians, Poles, Germans, Italians, Persians, Africans...? persecuted and non-persecuted Jews have gathered in Israel from all over the world (including Americans)... and there are non-jews living in Israel... kind of like saying race-based America... which race? Chinese, Mexican, Puerto Rican, African, Ukranian, Scottish...? since when is Palestinian a "race"? Are Syrians, Lebanese, Jordanians, Egyptians... a differenent "race"? Lybians are more African than Arab? Morrocans are...?

Is this Israeli 'genocide' you speak of targeted against? Hamas, Fatah, Hezbollah, Palestinians, Egyptians, Lebanese, Syrians, Iranians, Iraquis, Kuwaitis, Saudis, Muslims, Arabs, Persians, Afghans, Taliban, Al Quaida, Sunnis, Shiites? (on the flip side, I do recall hearing and reading of people and national (elected?) leaders calling for the destruction/deletion/eradication/etc. of Israel... but that's "morally" ok...)

"The Israeli air raids on the Gaza Concentration Camp..."

Israeli war crimes against about 4 million abusively imprisoned Occupied Palestinians?

do you include the "genocide" committed against the "prisoners" of the West Bank in recent days/weeks/months? or the "genocide" committed against the Lebanese? (or was that just Hezbollah?) or the "genocide" committed against the Syrians? Egyptians?

of course Shiite vs. Sunni, Iraqi vs. Iranian, Sikh vs. Hindu vs. Muslim... all of that is ok... right? (or are some of them "agents of Israel"?)

It's only the Israelis that are "genocidal Nazis"...

JERUSALEM – Gaza's deeply entrenched Hamas rulers won't be easily toppled, even by Israel's unprecedented bombings Saturday that killed more than 200 people, most of them men in Hamas uniform..." ..."For now, Israel's defense minister says he's striving for a lesser, temporary objective — to deliver such a punishing blow to Hamas that the Islamic militants will halt rocket attacks on Israel. Eighteen months after seizing Gaza by force, Hamas is in firm control and commands thousands of armed men." (By KARIN LAUB, Associated Press Writer)

p.s. what is this post doing in the "Solutions" section of Newsvine?

{"commentId":4574279,"threadId":"454431","contentId":"2250805","authorDomain":"celticbrooder"}
    Reply#12 - Sun Dec 28, 2008 10:28 AM EST
    {"commentId":4577236,"authorDomain":"gpolya"}

    Using data from the Israeli Ministry of Foreign Affairs and the Israeli human rights organization B'Tselem, it is estimated The "death ratio" of "Palestinians killed by Israelis since September 2000"/"Israelis killed by Palestinians since September 2000" = 5,132/1,170 = 4.4.

    Using data from the Israeli Ministry of Foreign Affairs and from the UN Population Division it is estimated that the "death ratio" of "violent and non-violent post-invasion Occupied Palestinian excess deaths" /"Jewish "Israeli" violent deaths from hostile enemy action, 1920-2008" = 300,000/3,670 = 82.

    Using data from the Israeli Ministry of Foreign Affairs and the UN Population Division, the "death ratio" of "avoidable post-invasion Occupied Palestinian under-5 infant deaths"/ "violent and non-violent post-invasion Occupied Palestinian excess deaths" /"Jewish "Israeli" violent deaths from hostile enemy action, 1920-2008" = 200,000/3,670 = 54.

    Using data from the Israeli Ministry of Foreign Affairs and UNICEF, the "death ratio" of "avoidable Occupied Palestinian under-5 infant deaths, September 2000-2008" / "Israelis killed by Palestinians since September 2000" = 8.25 x 2,400/1,170 = 19,800/1,170 = 17.

    Using data from the Israeli Ministry of Foreign Affairs and UNICEF, the "death ratio" of "non-violent avoidable Occupied Palestinian deaths from deprivation, September 2000-2008" / "Israelis killed by Palestinians since September 2000" = 8.25 x 2,400/1,170 X0.7 = 28,286/1,170 = 24.

    By way of comparison, in World War 2 and using data from a Wikipedia summation, entitled "World War II casualties" the "death ratio" of "Jewish children murdered"/"German military deaths" was 1.5 million/5.533 million = 0.27; the "death ratio" of "Jews murdered"/"German military deaths" was 6 million/5.533 million =1.1; the ratio of "ALL civilians killed in WW2"/""German military deaths" was 41.909 million"/5.533 million = 7.6.

    Using current media reports and data from a Wikipedia article entitled "List of Qassam rocket attacks" (this data in turn deriving from Israeli Ministry of Foreign Affairs data), the "death ratio" for "Occupied Palestinians killed by Israeli airstrikes post-Christmas 2008, SO FAR"/"Israelis killed by rockets and mortars since 2000" = 282/23 = 12.

    Arch-fiend Adolph Hitler ordered 10 reprisal executions for every German soldier killed by partisans and his order was translated promptly into the March 1944 Ardeatine Massacre in Italy involving a "death ratio" of "Italian prisoners"/"German soldiers" = 335/33 = 10.

    The LINKS to these sources are given below.

    Israeli Ministry of Foreign Affairs . B'Tselem . UN Population Division . UNICEF . World War 11 Casualties . Ardeatine Massacre. List of Qassam rocket attacks .

    For wider context and methodological details also see: Laypersons' guide to counting Iraq deaths ; "Body Count. Global avoidable mortality since 1950", G.M. Polya, Melbourne, 2007 ; Jane Austen and the Black Hole of British History", G.M. Polya, Melbourne, 2008 ; and 9-11 Excuse for US Global Genocide. The real 9-11 atrocity: Millions Dead (9-11 million) in Bush Wars .

    {"commentId":4577236,"threadId":"454431","contentId":"2250805","authorDomain":"gpolya"}
    • 4 votes
    #12.1 - Sun Dec 28, 2008 4:35 PM EST
    Reply
    {"commentId":4584616,"authorDomain":"Blearc"}

    I think the more important ratio is the number of "bullets" and the time frame.  I don't think Israel is innocent in this but this attempt to compare body counts with out comparing attempts is ridiculous.

    {"commentId":4584616,"threadId":"454431","contentId":"2250805","authorDomain":"Blearc"}
    • 1 vote
    Reply#13 - Mon Dec 29, 2008 11:11 AM EST
    {"commentId":4621530,"authorDomain":"drfade3000"}

    Not ridiculous , we can,t compare using the most destructive jet bombs with littering primitive missiles , though both are condemned.    An example was on today,s news:  bombing the house of Hamas,s  Nazar Rayan resulting in massive destruction of houses in meighbourhood and killing at least 12 civilians , they didn,t clam yet the number buried beneath the rubble

    {"commentId":4621530,"threadId":"454431","contentId":"2250805","authorDomain":"drfade3000"}
    • 3 votes
    #13.1 - Thu Jan 1, 2009 10:08 AM EST
    {"commentId":4622062,"authorDomain":"jfxgillis"}

    Fada:

    ... bombing the house of Hamas,s  Nazar Rayan ....

    Hooray!!!!!

    {"commentId":4622062,"threadId":"454431","contentId":"2250805","authorDomain":"jfxgillis"}
    • 2 votes
    #13.2 - Thu Jan 1, 2009 11:26 AM EST
    {"commentId":4622133,"authorDomain":"drfade3000"}

    Well, I don,t care if they hunted a couple of militants like in wars  ,  but this is not a war , this is a slaughtery ..and to be fair there is another hunt I,d like t to see justice getting him , the one who gave orders of killing a one by bombing tens of lives he knew that they are living arround , to this monster they are ''just subsidery loss''

    {"commentId":4622133,"threadId":"454431","contentId":"2250805","authorDomain":"drfade3000"}
    • 4 votes
    #13.3 - Thu Jan 1, 2009 11:37 AM EST
    {"commentId":4622165,"authorDomain":"jfxgillis"}

    Fada:

    ... the one who gave orders of killing a one by bombing tens of lives he knew that they are living arround ...

    The adorable Tzipi Livni is a "she" not a "he."

    Rayyan's family chose to remain with him at great peril to themselves. Other accounts suggest he forced them to remain. Either way, he was responsible for those "subsidiary" deaths.

    {"commentId":4622165,"threadId":"454431","contentId":"2250805","authorDomain":"jfxgillis"}
    • 1 vote
    #13.4 - Thu Jan 1, 2009 11:42 AM EST
    {"commentId":4622273,"authorDomain":"paperdragon"}

    adorable?

    ewww...

    {"commentId":4622273,"threadId":"454431","contentId":"2250805","authorDomain":"paperdragon"}
    • 5 votes
    #13.5 - Thu Jan 1, 2009 11:58 AM EST
    {"commentId":4622353,"authorDomain":"Wheel"}

    . Either way, he was responsible for those "subsidiary" deaths.

    Jack,

    The people who launched the missile are responsible for all the deaths, proximity to a person didn't cause the deaths, proximity to high explosives did. One must wonder what the excuse would have been if he had not been present, as has been the case before in these types of residential bombings.

    {"commentId":4622353,"threadId":"454431","contentId":"2250805","authorDomain":"Wheel"}
    • 5 votes
    #13.6 - Thu Jan 1, 2009 12:10 PM EST
    {"commentId":4622588,"authorDomain":"jfxgillis"}

    Wheel:

    Okay. Fine. Then they deserved to die by reason of their proximity to the scumbag psychopathic monster.

    The excuse would be the same in either case: "This is the place of a man who trains and indoctrinates suicide bombers. He and any building he is known to be associated with is a legitimate target."

    {"commentId":4622588,"threadId":"454431","contentId":"2250805","authorDomain":"jfxgillis"}
    • 1 vote
    #13.7 - Thu Jan 1, 2009 12:36 PM EST
    {"commentId":4622643,"authorDomain":"paperdragon"}

    Then they deserved to die by reason of their proximity to the scumbag psychopathic monster.

    Really? Proximity = guilt?

    {"commentId":4622643,"threadId":"454431","contentId":"2250805","authorDomain":"paperdragon"}
    • 5 votes
    #13.8 - Thu Jan 1, 2009 12:40 PM EST
    {"commentId":4622774,"authorDomain":"drfade3000"}

    Proxiimity in Israeli military dictionary may mean:  all residents in their fire range ,  they did it in South Lebanon and they left behind a pile of cluster bombs to finish to them the random job.

    {"commentId":4622774,"threadId":"454431","contentId":"2250805","authorDomain":"drfade3000"}
    • 5 votes
    #13.9 - Thu Jan 1, 2009 12:52 PM EST
    {"commentId":4622921,"authorDomain":"Wheel"}

    Then they deserved to die by reason of their proximity to the scumbag psychopathic monster.

    Deserved to die eh? For what? Being alive?

    {"commentId":4622921,"threadId":"454431","contentId":"2250805","authorDomain":"Wheel"}
    • 3 votes
    #13.10 - Thu Jan 1, 2009 1:09 PM EST
    {"commentId":4623142,"authorDomain":"jfxgillis"}

    Dennis:

    Yes. Really.

    {"commentId":4623142,"threadId":"454431","contentId":"2250805","authorDomain":"jfxgillis"}
    • 2 votes
    #13.11 - Thu Jan 1, 2009 1:35 PM EST
    {"commentId":4623165,"authorDomain":"jfxgillis"}

    Wheel:

    For supporting a filthy murderous psychopath.

    Personally, I'd have preferred that they not die along with their psychopathic leader, but if the choice is between killing them and allowing the psychopath to remain alive and active, I say: Kill the psychopath.

    {"commentId":4623165,"threadId":"454431","contentId":"2250805","authorDomain":"jfxgillis"}
    • 2 votes
    #13.12 - Thu Jan 1, 2009 1:37 PM EST
    {"commentId":4623197,"authorDomain":"paperdragon"}

    OK, just wanted to be sure you meant it before I decided whether to report it.

    Hell of a concept there, Jack. Proximity = guilt.

    Hey, weren't you in Boston when those four planes were hijacked in 2001?

    {"commentId":4623197,"threadId":"454431","contentId":"2250805","authorDomain":"paperdragon"}
    • 4 votes
    #13.13 - Thu Jan 1, 2009 1:41 PM EST
    {"commentId":4623200,"authorDomain":"Wheel"}

    or supporting a filthy murderous psychopath.Personally, I'd have preferred that they not die along with their psychopathic leader, but if the choice is between killing them and allowing the psychopath to remain alive and active, I say: Kill the psychopath

    ahh, so they go from being innocent family members to being supporters of a filthy murderous psychopath. And he goes from being a member of their family to being their leader?! I see, makes it more palatable eh?

    {"commentId":4623200,"threadId":"454431","contentId":"2250805","authorDomain":"Wheel"}
    • 3 votes
    #13.14 - Thu Jan 1, 2009 1:41 PM EST
    {"commentId":4623273,"authorDomain":"jfxgillis"}

    Dennis:

    If some tank commander decides to take his children with him off to battle for "Take you child to work day," who is responsible for the child's death if the tank gets blown up?

    {"commentId":4623273,"threadId":"454431","contentId":"2250805","authorDomain":"jfxgillis"}
    • 2 votes
    #13.15 - Thu Jan 1, 2009 1:49 PM EST
    {"commentId":4623304,"authorDomain":"jfxgillis"}

    Wheel:

    ahh, so they go from being innocent family members

    Nope.  If they chose to stay, they were assisting the psychopath and got what they deserved. If the psychopath forced them to stay, he is responsible for their deaths.

    This isn't that hard of a concept.

    {"commentId":4623304,"threadId":"454431","contentId":"2250805","authorDomain":"jfxgillis"}
    • 2 votes
    #13.16 - Thu Jan 1, 2009 1:53 PM EST
    Reply
    {"commentId":4591330,"authorDomain":"Wheel"}

    gideon,

    I want to ask you a question, it's off topic but it's been on my mind. I was wondering if there was any way to find out the total amt of calories as food allowed into gaza divided by the pop. to get an idea of the kind of daily caloric intake, not including food brought in through tunnels. I realize it's not on topic and not your problem, it's just one of those things that popped into my head. First people are starving, then they're just hungry, then everything's fine...depending on who's doing the talking. It occurs to me that daily caloric intake per person is one of those things that could be a rough indicator of how well, or poorly, fed people really are.

    {"commentId":4591330,"threadId":"454431","contentId":"2250805","authorDomain":"Wheel"}
    • 6 votes
    Reply#14 - Mon Dec 29, 2008 8:19 PM EST
    {"commentId":4594293,"authorDomain":"Blearc"}

    hehehe Newvine get smarter here

    Wheel, now that is an amazing question.

    {"commentId":4594293,"threadId":"454431","contentId":"2250805","authorDomain":"Blearc"}
    • 2 votes
    #14.1 - Tue Dec 30, 2008 1:47 AM EST
    {"commentId":4618617,"authorDomain":"gpolya"}

    Wheel - that is a very sensible question but I do not have the data.

    Nevertheless one CAN assess the consequences of deprivation and deprivation-exacerbated disease in impoverished Third World countries occupied by racist, genocidal Western occupiers .

    THUS "annual total excess deaths" (avoidable deaths, deaths that did not have to happen) in such impoverished countries (overwhelmingly from deprivation and deprivation-exacerbated disease) are about 1.4 times the "annual under-5 year old infant deaths" (see: Layperon's guide to counting Iraq deaths ).

    Consulting the latest data from UNICEF (see: UNICEF infant deaths statistics ) we find that "annual undeer-5 year old infant deaths" in the war criminal US Alliance-occupied Occupied Palestinian, Iraqi and Afghan Territories total 3,000, 43,000 and 347,000 .

    Accordingly "total annual excess deaths" due to war criminal Occupier non-supply of Genva Convention-demanded life-preserving requisites in the Occupied Palestinian, Iraqi and Afghan Territories are
    4,200, 60,200 and 485,888, respectively- as compared to ZERO (0) in such impoverished but non-occupied countries such as Cuba, Sri Lanka and Tunisia - and even ZERO (0) in only partially-occupied, occasionally Israel- or US-bombed Syria, resource-poor and impoverished Syria (for data see "Body Count. Global avoidable mortality since 1950" by G. Polya ).

    {"commentId":4618617,"threadId":"454431","contentId":"2250805","authorDomain":"gpolya"}
    • 2 votes
    #14.2 - Wed Dec 31, 2008 8:55 PM EST
    {"commentId":4621734,"authorDomain":"Wheel"}

    347,000 under 5 year old deaths in Afghanistan in ONE YEAR?! How is that even possible? Sorry, I know it's not on topic but how can that possibly be?!

    {"commentId":4621734,"threadId":"454431","contentId":"2250805","authorDomain":"Wheel"}
    • 3 votes
    #14.3 - Thu Jan 1, 2009 10:44 AM EST
    {"commentId":4629610,"authorDomain":"gpolya"}

    Good questions, Wheel - simply go to the UNICEF website and thence to "Countries" and thence to "Afghanistan" (see: UNICEF statistics on infant deaths in Occupied Afghanistan" and you will find, QUOTE: "Annual no. of under-5 deaths (thousands), 2006 327,000".

    Of course it is not only infants who die from deprivation due to US Alliance war crimes but the sick , the elderly, peri-natal mothers etc.

    A dozen years of research and 2 books later, my estimate is that for impoverished Third World countries that "under-5 infant deaths" are numerically about 0.7 of the "total avoidable deaths from deprivation" i.e. total annual "avoidable deaths" in Afghanistan total 327,000/0.7 = 467,000.

    The fundamental reason for this horrendous avoidable death toll in Occupied Afghanistan is war criminal violation of the Geneva Convention by the US Alliance Occupiers - including my own country, look-the-other-way, PC racist , war criminal, climate criminal White Australia - by only permitting a "total annual per capita medical expenditure" in Occupied Afghanistan of $26 (TWENTY SIX DOLLARS) (see WHO: WHO stastics on medical funding in Occupied Afghanistan ) - equivalent to HALF the cost of ONE 5 minute Government-subsidized consultation with a General Practitioner doctor in racist White Australia.

    The leaders of the US Alliance responsible for this carnage are war criminals - as are all the people who KNOWINGLY vote for them in these corrupt, racist Murdochracies. The "out" for the Voters is that the racist, lying, holocaust-ignoring Mainstream media, politcians and academics simply IGNORE the carnage - which is then out of sight, out if mind in the "democratic Nazi" states of the US, UK, racist White Australia, and complicit NATO countries.

    {"commentId":4629610,"threadId":"454431","contentId":"2250805","authorDomain":"gpolya"}
    • 3 votes
    #14.4 - Fri Jan 2, 2009 4:33 AM EST
    {"commentId":4633337,"authorDomain":"drfade3000"}

    Good post Gideon.   Few people know about those crimes of US alliance in Afghanistan , the western mainstream know nothing about civilian lives under occupation.  All they think is that Afghani war is a succesful anti-terror action 

    {"commentId":4633337,"threadId":"454431","contentId":"2250805","authorDomain":"drfade3000"}
    • 4 votes
    #14.5 - Fri Jan 2, 2009 12:22 PM EST
    Reply
    {"commentId":5860095,"authorDomain":"Dave-951745"}

    Here's an idea: If Palestinians don't want to be put in a war zone, stop tolerating homicidal freaks like Hamas among the civilian population. Wipe out Hamas => the rocket attacks on a sovereign state's civilian population stop => that sovereign state no longer needs to fight for the safety of its people. The Palestinians invite warfare when they let Hamas camp out among the civilian population and fire weapons at others. Idiots.

    {"commentId":5860095,"threadId":"454431","contentId":"2250805","authorDomain":"Dave-951745"}
    • 1 vote
    Reply#15 - Tue Mar 10, 2009 6:34 PM EDT
    {"commentId":5860759,"authorDomain":"Wheel"}

    little problem with that thinking there Dave. The Israeli's are the murderous ones, the ones that are doing the most killing. Maybe you should take the time to actually read the article Dave instead of just posting some propaganda laced hate speech.

    {"commentId":5860759,"threadId":"454431","contentId":"2250805","authorDomain":"Wheel"}
    • 3 votes
    #15.1 - Tue Mar 10, 2009 6:47 PM EDT
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