Planet doomed to temperatures over 2C & death of coral reefs from warming, acidification

Source?

The textbook Paleoclimatology.

We may see a greening of the Sahara desert; and many other deserts which will bllom under the increased humidity.

Spaceguy, that book's assertion just like your other Denier Beliefs, are BullCrap:

http://www.ansa.it/site/notizie/awnplus/english/news/2009-06-25_125345332.html

What the climate models showed is increasing desertification, which even as I type, is increasingly being borne out in real world observations:

More persistent droughts & drying up of Argentina's Pampas farmlands; Australia's worsening droughts; vanishing western U.S. glaciers & increasing desertification; a Sahara desert that is expanding & has crossed the Mediterranean into Europe; etc etc.

http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2009/04/murray-darling/draper-text

http://climateprogress.org/2009/03/22/an-introduction-to-global-warming-impacts-hell-and-high-water/

DESERTIFICATION

Then we have moderate drought over half the planet, plus the loss of all inland glaciers that provide water to a billion people.

"The unexpectedly rapid expansion of the tropical belt constitutes yet another signal that climate change is occurring sooner than expected," noted one climate researcher in December 2007. A 2008 study led by NOAA noted, "A poleward expansion of the tropics is likely to bring even drier conditions to" the U.S. Southwest, Mexico, Australia and parts of Africa and South America."

In 2007, Science (subs. req'd) published research that "predicted a permanent drought by 2050 throughout the Southwest" — levels of aridity comparable to the 1930s Dust Bowl would stretch from Kansas to California. And they were only looking at a 720 ppm case! The Dust Bowl was a sustained decrease in soil moisture of about 15% ("which is calculated by subtracting evaporation from precipitation").

A NOAA-led study similary found permanent Dust Bowls in Southwest and around the globe on our current emissions trajectory (and irreversibly so for 1000 years). And as I have discussed, future droughts will be fundamentally different from all previous droughts that humanity has experienced because they will be very hot weather droughts (see Must-have PPT: The "global-change-type drought" and the future of extreme weather).

What the climate models showed is increasing desertification, which even as I type, is increasingly being borne out in real world observations:

I don't give a flying flip what the climate models say, history says that in temperatures a few degrees warmer than today, which is what the Holocene maximum was, the Sahara greens due to the fact that the Monsoons move further north.

This is simply another area where the computer weenies running the models fail to pay attention to the real world.

VERSUS the dangerous, "do-nothing", business as usual, pronouncements and ignorant, abusive, anti-scientist abuse of uncredentialled, anonymous bloggers.

Oh contraire, I am a complete advocate of doing something. We need to get off of oil (which is what generates the CO2) as soon as possible but it has nothing to do with global warming. We need to get off of oil because the people that have most of it are for the most part neanderthals who think that a woman driving a car or learning how to write are sinful and on top of that see that women who do have that right (i.e. most of the rest of the world) as a threat to their very existence.

I advocate an immediate and massive move to nuclear power, fission first, then fusion when it can be developed. On top of this, the Earth, which comprises 0.000001% of the Mass of the solar system and 0.0000001% of the resources that can be reasonably recovered for the use of human society, is not the place to get these resources as the process is polluting. We need to access the several hundred thousand trillion dollars worth of resources that are waiting for us just in the inner solar system and our companion Moon.

Achieving the above will make the 21st century seem as poor to us in the 22nd century as the dark ages are to us in the 21st century.

Make no mistake, the leading lights of the AGW movement do not have humanities (as a whole) best interest at heart but a dark version whereby billions will die and the few that remain will live in harmony with some theoretical natural balance that has NEVER EXISTED.

For those who want to see beyond the bilge that temperatures have not been this high in three million years, simply google the term "Holocene maximum" or "Holocene Optimum" to see that 7000 years ago temperatures were several degrees higher and the Sahara was not a desert.

You can believe the bilge, or you can research it for yourself. it is YOUR future at stake here as well as mine.

First snow in 60 years in June in North Dakota

http://krishna109.newsvine.com/_news/2009/06/28/2978240-snow-falls-in-western-nd-in-june

But my point is that is is mostly a European concern, because the climate models show a much worse climate for Europe in particular (I forgot exactly what but I remember seeing the model and then finally understanding why it is mostly Europeans going insane over this). So please check the models - if I am correct then you will have to admit that the chicken little hysteria of Europeans, where they project their own problems and then say the whole world is doomed, is possibly a lie.

Wow. You people literally, actually believe that global warming is some kind of unique situation. It just isn't. There are hundreds, thousands, of potential threats to human civilization. Global warming is just one, and not the most dangerous. How about the loss of essential seeds and agricultural technology? That is harder to play chicken little on, there is no fat Al Gore to puff his lips and sigh at us, but its far more dangerous and serious.

How many people could make iron tools if we ran out of oil? Do you even understand the implications of us running out if oil?

With lots of oil and cheap energy, we could survive global warming. It would be uncomfortable, but we could survive with mostly the same civilization. Without lots and lots of cheap energy in the form of oil, we have no agriculture, no manufacturing, no transportation, and 6 billion mouths to feed. Every day, a huge fleet of trucks pours food and supplies into the Eastern Seaboard of the United States, for example. If those trucks stopped for 1 week, some 100 million people would begin to go hungry., In 4 weeks, half of them would be dead.

8 weeks without oil, and half the world's population would be dead. Global warming may kill some 5% if that.

You have to think, people. There are real disasters out there, and they are inevitable, not hypothesis and hype.

Sharn

They don't want to actually do anything to fix the problem, they want us to die.

If CO2 is a problem, it can easily be fixed.

Massive implementation of Nuclear power.

They don't want to actually do anything to fix the problem, they want us to die

That's very strange, ... I thought that you spaceguy, in addition with "steven goddard" & a host of other Exxon-funded industry-shill denier groups that you've seeded articles from (eg. Heartland.org, wattsupwiththat.com, climateaudit.org, Competitve Enterprise Institute), all said we're entering a cooling trend of at least a decade or more; plus atmospheric CO2 levels are too insignificant to cause AGW? And that it was all the "sun's fault" plus that of ocean currents?

if its the sun's fault lets declare a good ole 20th century "war on the sun" in order to stop its strange effects and deleterious effects on our climate. although the CEI people think that the warming will be, "closer to heaven than hell..."

Gotta love the self cleaning oven effect!

...it isn't the planet that is doomed, it is the human race...

Really. All those campaigns, "Save the Planet", "Earth Day", etc. are sorely misbranded. Planet Earth will survive just fine with or without humans, at least for another billion years or so.

All things considered, the planet would be better off. Human affairs only matter to humans.

All things considered, the planet would be better off...

Another good one. Humans are classic parasites. We swarm all over our host, replicating ourselves will-nilly, sucking the life blood from the Earth. We're tapeworms. And now Planet Earth is getting cystic masses, muscles aches, fevers, and an itchy anus. But, she's got the perfect anthelmintic to get rid of those pesky intruders, CO2. And, before you know it, no more parasites!

More like a cancer on the planet, and the host body is about to go into remission.

More like a cancer on the planet, and the host body is about to go into remission.

Ok. Ok. Good analogy. So, as you see it, humans were at one point an integral part of Planet Earth. Then we mutated and started multiplying out of control and are now choking the very thing that gave us life to begin with. We lost the genetic code that controlled our growth and now we're a necrotic cancerous growth. And CO2 is the potent chemotherapy that will snuff out the cancer that is the human race. Darn, and I was having so much fun. I suppose that's what most cancers say.

Yeah, I'd say that that is a much more articulate version of what I was getting at. I don't know about just CO2 though. Probably more like a chemical cocktail. With any luck, there may be a few "cells" left that will behave better next time around. Just hope it isn't radiation therapy that takes care of the problem.

I don't see a lot of volunteering to self eliminate the problem here.

Not me, I am the ultimate optimist, I think the world is going in the crapper and I will be one of the survivors. I used to think that anyway, I seem to have arrived at an age now where I probably don't have enough time left to see all that happen anyway.

I don't see a lot of volunteering to self eliminate the problem here.

VHEM

You're just not looking in the right places.

Well, taking that tack on things, I guess I have done OK, no kids left behind, I am the end of my line.

Past evidence would indicate that it isn't the planet that is doomed, it is the human race or at least most of it. The planet will abide.

Is this a serious statement? Is this the kind of thing that the global warming "scientists" are saying? The human race survived the ice age, my friend. are you kidding me? The human is very adaptable. Ever study the Bushmen of Africa? You see the place and conditions under which they survive on the Kalahari - survive and thrive before they were displaced. Humans are a very tenacious animal. They are stronger than alomst any other mammal, because of the power of their ability to organize socially and adapt. Like huge ants, but with a faster rate of change. They also have great digestive systems, able to eat a huge variety of different substances.

So what is the doom and gloom? Nature will survive, humans will survive, I bet even some human culture will survive. What will not survive will be the elite rich, the Al Gores, the Eurpoean Socialists, the phonies, the useless, the scientists in their comfy offices. They are the weakest link. So they want to take all of us down with them.

I see that you're still a proud member of the Modern Flat-Earth Society, jpark.

You are the one with an inability to see anything as anything other than an industrial conspiracy.

Do you think you and other Chicken Littles can stop it now that the sky has fallen?

BTW, though there are a few "flat earth" believers, it was never a common belief. Anyone with any visual perception at the ocean or a large lake can see the curvature of the earth.

BTW, though there are a few "flat earth" believers, it was never a common belief

Up to Columbus' day, it was a very common belief, similar to the very common bible-clutching, gun-toting conservatives' belief that AGW is a farce (eg. Sarah Palin, spaceguy & your AGW-is-a-farce Belief, jpark)

Anyone with any visual perception at the ocean or a large lake can see the curvature of the earth.

Exactly true of how anyone with a brain & eyes can also observe the nothern hemisphere's migration of tropical birds, trees & other species, further & further northwards over the last few decades.

But then some conservatives just insist on following Exxon's lead that the world's "cooling" [youKnow? = the modern day's version of "the earth's flat & Al Gore's an idiot!"]

Laf

http://www.physorg.com/news154793277.html

http://www.physorg.com/news136618498.html

Roxanne2Sweet,
I'll ask a third time:

Do you think you and other Chicken Littles can stop it now that the sky has fallen?

tsk, tsk; jpark, we all know that you're really saying: "It's already too late, so let's take zero action to regulate global warming/fossil fuel burning, & take zero action to introduce higher vehicle mileage standards, etc"...

Which coincidentally, I hear is the exact same position of ExxonMobil's PR Dept.

Now, I'm by no means saying that you work for them or for a denier group that they fund; but at the minimum, I hope that Exxon's paying you very handsomely for enthusiastically championing their exact same Cause, ok jpark.

So Chicken Little will continue to squawk even after the sky has fallen.

Noted.

Conspiracy theorists apparently cannot act rationally.

(Rationality says that if the result is inevitable, there is no further reason to attempt to prevent the result).

Rationality says that if the result is inevitable, there is no further reason to attempt to prevent the result

Which is a fallacious leap of logic (common to Deniers) as applied to AGW. AGW can be mitigated, for eg. by ultimately taking additional legislative steps (which Exxon will hate) to stabilize at 550ppm by century's end versus 1,000 ppm.

Which in turn could buy mankind sufficient time to successfully geo-engineer ourselves out of the crisis. After-all, we are a clever, inventive species. And I'm certain as the years roll on, most persons will realize that current mitigation measures are woefully inadequate, & thereby make the necessary adjustments such as much deeper cuts in greenhouse emissions.

But an irrational person such as yourself jpark, along with your Denier ilk, simply cannot think rationally.

Jpark, exactly. It was never about the sky falling. It was about the nameless fears and dreads of Chicken Little, and her desire for attention. The Global Warming hysterics are people who fear death, but can't name it. so they concoct a vast and satisfying scenario where not just they die, but somehow "the whole world is dying". Years ago, this kind of hysteria was concocted about population growthl the whole world was going to die when the world's population hit 4 billion. Then they were going on about DDT and other pollutants - that was going to kill the whole world.

I have news for the Chicken Littles - you are going to die, but the world will go on just fine. Sorry, I know its more satisfying to imagine that the world vannot exist without you, but it always does.

There were probably a lot of Romans sitting around denying that the vandals were coming too. If there had have been any dinosaurs at the time to discuss things they probably would have been saying that the asteroid was not going to be any big deal either.

There was no asteroid. that is also junk science - the fossil evidence has never supported the asteroid theory of dinosaur extinction. The asteroid theory is appealing to uneducated minds; just as global warming hysteria is appealing to uneducated, unscientific minds.

As for the Romans who denied the real state of affairs - they were the elite members of the Roman society, like our modern scientists and Al Gore. These were the fools of that day, and the fools of our day. These are the people who fear change and cannot prevent it.

Do you want to serve a fat fool like Al Gore? He is a mouse protecting his cheese (as in "who moved my cheese?"). He isn't trying to help mankind, just his elite rich friends.